JayTalbott Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 There's a bit of a story behind this that I won't go into, but I'm building a bunk bed for one of our dogs. The main part of the bunk is built as 4 tapered legs and 4 aprons, with a cleat around the inside bottom edge of all 4 aprons that matches notches that were milled out of the inside corners of the legs. I also milled a chamfer on the outside edge of each leg and beveled off the top outside corners of each leg using a chisel. The cleats will support a simple rectangular frame that was made with simple half-lap joints that will be covered in fabric, sort of like a cot. On top of that will go a dog bed that we bought at PetSmart. The inside dimensions of the bunk were based on the dimensions of the dog bed. As you can see from the photos, I've completed the construction of the bunk, and now it's time for finishing. Although the bunk was built from hard maple, we want to stain it pretty dark to go along with the other furniture in the room. After considering a number of possible stain colors, we chose a water-based stain that I happened to have on hand. Knowing that water-based finishes will raise the grain, I pre-wetted everything thing with water, and after it dried, gave it one last sanding with some 320 grit sandpaper. Moving on to staining, I started with the inner frame, since even if I botched it up, it will be covered in fabric anyway and my mistakes won't be visible. I don't have a spray system, so my plan was to just wipe on the stain. The problem is, the stain dries almost instantly on the bare wood, so it's almost impossible to keep a wet edge, and it was very hard to get an even coat of stain. I tried a trick I learned from Marc of pre-wetting the wood with water before applying the stain, which definitely helps, but I still didn't get the quality of results I'm looking for. In the end it took about 4 coats of stain to get to the desired darkness of color, and it's not nearly as even as I'd like it to be. Note that the unevenness isn't because of maple being a blotchy wood, but simply because the water-based stain dries so dang fast. As for the main part of the bunk, I haven't started staining yet, as I'm after some help/tips/suggestions/etc. to get it to go on more evenly before I start. I only get one chance at this, so I want to be sure I don't botch it up. Nothing is off the table as far as ideas go. Just tell me what works best for you. Thanks in advance! - Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Extender from general finishes will lengthen the drying time. Sanding sealer will help with the blotching. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Jay...what stains (manufacture) are you using, its not mentioned in your first post? You could take your water-based topcoat and mix it in equal parts with water to make a washcoat. Then stain over the washcoat. This should help slow your stain take-up. Also, try to speed-up your application technique. Get to ah getting with a water-based. If your using General Finishes products, they do have an extender, but is really only necessary on large areas where more open time is necessary, such as a tabletop or large case or something. But heck you do live in AZ (dry climate) so give it a try. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTalbott Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Jay...what stains (manufacture) are you using, its not mentioned in your first post? It's a can of stain from American Woodmark (the company that makes cabinets for Home Depot). I originally bought it to get stain that exactly matched our kitchen cabinets for a project I did a year ago. It turns out it was pretty close to what my wife had in mind for the dog bed, so since we had it on hand, that's what we decided to use. The can simply has a generic American Woodmark label, so I have no idea of the actual manufacturer actually made the stain. My topcoat is actually going to be Arm-R-Seal, which is what I used over the same stain on the prior project. Would a water-based pre-stain conditioner help? Since we want it to be pretty dark (I put 4 coats of stain on the inner frame), I don't want to use anything that will seal the wood too much, keeping it from absorbing enough of the stain, and thus keeping it from turning out dark enough. I don't mind doing multiple coats though, as long as I have control over what's happening in the process. Get to ah getting with a water-based. Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 http://community.woodmagazine.com/t5/Finishing-and-Refinishing/Cabinet-Stain/td-p/104744 I remembered something on home depot cabinets. So I googled. Check out the link above, its from wood magazine forum. If this where me, I would start over using new finishing products that weren't so difficult to use. Seems that stuff is hard to handle That's just me. -Ace- (huh?) ...that just mean move fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTalbott Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thanks Ace! That thread describes my exact problem. It sounds like the "stain" I purchased really isn't designed for staining whole projects, but just for touching up dings on existing cabinets. I got it to work OK on my project from a year ago, but the circumstances were a lot different. For that project, I was working with cherry instead of maple. Also, I pre-finished all the parts before assembly on that project, and thus was working with much smaller areas where I could cover a whole piece in one wipe without leaving a wet edge anywhere. Mixing that with pre-wetting the wood with water per Marc's suggestion go me through that project with pretty decent results - but it was still a PITA. On this project, it seems my best option is to pick a different stain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Your basically using expired partially evaporated old stain. The stain that American Woodmark sends out in fact is not what is on your cabinets but is a decent quality stain. You may find that on warm dry days your going to need extender even on a fresh can of General Finishes stain. Even here in the PNW where it seems to never stop raining extender is a must in the summer. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hey Don...in the summer...instead of extender...try adjusting the time of day you stain. Early morning (best) or evening time...when its cooler. Just a thought. However, larger projects where open time is a key, could pose a problem. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTalbott Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 OK, I put the American Woodmark stain back on the shelf, swung by Woodcraft, and picked up a can of GF water-based stain and a can of GF pre-stain conditioner. I applied the pre-stain conditioner, and then after a couple of hours, commenced staining. Using this approach, it went a lot better than working with the American Woodmark stain, but it still wasn't ideal (ok, I'll admit that it could partially be my application technique). It also took about 4 coats to get the desired color. It's good enough for it's intended purpose, but I think next time I need to apply water based stain I need to consider getting an HVLP system. Thanks everybody for your help. Now on to putting on the topcoats using GF Arm-R-Seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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