Scott Seganti Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I apologize if this topic has been covered, but I'm having a hard time finding specific information. My Shop: I just moved into a new house with a detached 1000 sq ft workshop, which is located in a residential neighborhood. It will be my 1st full blown wood shop. My Concern: I have read a great deal about dust collection and know several old time woodworkers dealing with respiratory issues from saw dust... it is a BIG concern to me and I want to address it the best I can. I am planing on purchasing a cyclone dust collector and want to know more about sending the exhaust dust outside instead of through a filter. This seems to be a better solution according to Bill Pentz's website. I fully understand the concerns about sucking in furnace gases (which I don't have) and blowing heated or air conditioned air outside, but I'm trying to get the full picture with this type of setup. My biggest concerns are the effects of exhausting saw dust to the areas outside my shop. My Questions:How much dust do you typically see going out the exhaust port of a cyclone system? I know this is a relative question... I'm looking to get a general idea here. Will it leave a layer of dust outside my shop where I exhaust it... or worse my neighbors yard?If I were to exhaust outside; is it better to have the exhaust port close to the ground or as high up as I can get it? I assume exhausting it up high would disperse it better... which is the goal right? I assume exhausting it close to the ground would contain it more from blowing all over my neighborhood.I've read about the potential adverse affects to nearby plants or trees... does anyone here have first hand experience with this? I have fruit trees in my yard and don't want to exacerbate the problem... although I struggle to believe that this is a legitimate problem.Are there any other concerns I should have? I'm mainly looking for feedback from people who have first hand experiences with cyclone dust collectors and exhausting dust outside. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 My cyclone is mounted up high on the back of my shop outside in the elements. To give you and Idea, I empty my 55g barrel on average twice sometime three times a week. I dont have a filter or muffler installed and my wife's patio furniture is sitting in the area that in theory should be dusty and there is no wood dust on the furniture. I usually get up about 3am and cut cabinet boxes until about 6 am and the noise doesnt interrupt my wifes sleep with the window facing the shop. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 first congrats on the new house and shop...............second i ran across a guy who put his dust collection outside inside a plastic shed that he then insulated to keep sound to a minimum. he just cut a hole in back of shed snaked his line into his garage and then had a second hose dump his dust into a few barrels siting along the side of the shed. made it so he had a quick latch on the barrels so he could switch it out quickly. and the dust that he got he ended up trading to a farmer who used it in the walkways outside the barns to keep mud and animal urine to a minimum mess. i think the farmer traded him some honey/wax, apples, fresh chicken eggs ect.....he also made a mix of sawdust and salt so that people could salt there walkways the salt melts the ice without killing the lawn and the dust creates traction to keep from falling. he could buy a bag of salt combine to make 3 seperate bags of salt and dust. doing this he figure he paid off he dust collector and shed in 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 My cyclone is mounted up high on the back of my shop outside in the elements. To give you and Idea, I empty my 55g barrel on average twice sometime three times a week. Don Hi Don. Is the dust collected in the 55 g drum pre impeller? If yes is the 55g drum inside or outside? Is it up 12 feet also or do you have it on the ground and a 6 inch hoes running up to the DC? I can't quite get a handle on it because I know you run your lines in the ceiling cavity. Can you post a picture please? It would help me heaps. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hi Don. Is the dust collected in the 55 g drum pre impeller? If yes is the 55g drum inside or outside? Is it up 12 feet also or do you have it on the ground and a 6 inch hoes running up to the DC? I can't quite get a handle on it because I know you run your lines in the ceiling cavity. Can you post a picture please? It would help me heaps. Thanks in advance. Mine is cyclone is mounted up high this just puts the inlet into the atti space. The drum sits on the ground I think its a 7" or 8" hose going from the cyclone to the drum. Here are a couple shot I had on my computer. You can see where the cyclone inlet goes right into the wall. To mount up high you have to order a longer outlet hose from griz. The first is the cyclone the second is my buddy helping to get the motor on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Are you concerned about having the motor exposed to the weather? Did you build any sort of shelter for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Are you concerned about having the motor exposed to the weather? Did you build any sort of shelter for it? I went high tech. 5 gallon bucket with slots cut in the sides. Motor stays dry. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 My cyclone exhaust goes directly outside. I don't have much in the way of plants or anything important on that side of the garage. Its just a pea gravel driveway and a few ugly desert plants. There is a fine coating of dust on the outside of the wall that gets washed away whenever it rains. And the house is brown so it really doesn't make much difference. The good news is that a good cyclone will separate out most of the major dust and chips before it ever reaches the exhaust. I know when I ran my filters, the only time I would get anything substantial in there was when I didn't pay enough attention to the level in the dust bin. So whatever does come out the exhaust is quite minimal and very fine and as a result, it disperses quickly. Now I wouldn't want anyone to spend any time near the exhaust port while the cyclone is running, obviously, but I think anything sitting more than a few feet away is probably going to be unaffected. At least it won't have any more dust than it already has from living in the valley. I can't really comment so much on the adverse effects on plants but I honestly can't imagine the amount being substantial enough to make any difference at all. One other note. Be wary of any open windows on that side of the shop/garage. I have a fairly large window near the exhaust and I am always careful to close it completely before running the system. Wouldn't want to suck that fine dust right back into the shop, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Keep in mind that the shop will suck replacement air from somewhere, so you might as well decide where that is. As Marc said, it shouldn't be next to the Dust Collector outlet. If you want to over-engineer it, you can put a vent in the other side of the shop, and install a cheap furnace filter just for yucks. If you live somewhere where it rains fairly often, then I can't imagine that the dust would be any problem. Keep in mind that Marc lives in Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Keep in mind that Marc lives in Arizona. He lives in Peoria which is just a few minutes away. Our climate is pretty much identical, although it sounds like my shop is a little more "classic desert". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Seganti Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 He lives in Peoria which is just a few minutes away. Our climate is pretty much identical, although it sounds like my shop is a little more "classic desert". I just threw a stone and hit Marc's house (figuratively of course ). Thanks for all the replies. Based on what I'm hearing (reading), my concerns about the outside dust are gone. The guys over at Oneida seem to concur. However, after speaking with Oneida my concerns have shifted to how fast air changes occur. The guy was telling me my whole shop (1000 sq ft - 12 ft ceilings) could do a complete air exchange in roughly 3-5 minutes. Now I know this is an 'off the cuff' guesstimate, but that is still a fairly staggering number. To say our Phoenix summers are hot is an understatement and I'd hate to have my air conditioner fight the constant influx of 115 deg heat, so I'm starting to lean back towards a filtered system. I'd be curious to here what Marc's experiences are with sucking air from the shop in the AZ summer. Thanks again for everyone's input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike M Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 You need to be able to switch the exhaust between an inside filter and outside. When you are conditioning the air in your shop run the exhaust back into the shop. When you are working with the windows open, blow it outside. Another thing to consider if your shop is well sealed. If you try to run the DC with the windows and doors closed, you will create a partial vacuum in your shop that the DC will have to fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 When I first set up my system, I had every intention of installing the filters during the summer months. As things warmed up and the air started to go on now and then, I figured I'd get to it eventually. Needless to say, after several summers I still have the unit exhausting outside. Truth is, I never really noticed a major issue. I am sure the AC was working a little harder to replace the cold air, but not excessively so. My garage is insulated, but not as well as it could be. So perhaps I am just used to a system that has to work fairly hard to cool the space down. Ultimately, in AZ, once a space is cooled it is much easier to keep it that way. So even if the temp goes up a few degrees, the system shouldn't have much trouble bringing it back down. It is inefficient, but when compared to the benefits of exhausting outside, it is a price I'm willing to pay. I'd say give it a shot. If the AC works overtime and you don't like it, go ahead and install the filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I haven't installed yet, but my thoughts are that I will mount the DC outside in the same manner as Dwacker did. I can draw air back into the workshop from east, west or south at will. Remembering of course, that Australia is in the southern hemisphere, so south is the cooler side, same as north is the cooler side in the northern hemisphere. On cold days I can draw warm air from the East in the morning or west in the evening. On hot days I can draw air from the south all day as well as west in the mornings and east in the afternoons. Solar orientation has a massive effect. If all of that fails me I will simply fit a filter inside the shop and run a 6 inch flex hose in a large radius back out the wall to the DC exhaust port. As Marc says, "after several summers I still have the unit exhausting outside". Time will tell. The temp does not get much below 32 F at my place but does get over 90 F during summer, but not for long periods. I am thinking I will play it by ear. One other thing to consider is that the DC will not be running 24/7, possibly only 1-10 minutes at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Solar orientation has a massive effect. There was a guy in this forum (or maybe an earlier incarnation) who built solar heating units. Deep black non-reflective bodies with transparent outside faces. I don't recall if the faces were some special greenhouse effect material or just lexan / plexi. Cool air came in the bottom and hot air went out the top - no moving parts. You could put one of those on the south side and use it for heat, and just close the vent into the shop when you wanted cool air. I have a porch on the north side of my shop, with a porch roof. I was thinking that if I had to pull air into the shop in the summer, I could pull it from under the porch. It would be completely shaded, and also close to the earth. Earth that never gets any sun stays pretty cool. Unfortunately, I have a natural gas hot water heater and a natural gas boiler in my shop. After going back and forth in my head, I finally decided that it was better to just use a Wynn 0.5 filter and recirculate the air, rather than worry about back-pressure problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Unfortunately, I have a natural gas hot water heater and a natural gas boiler in my shop. After going back and forth in my head, I finally decided that it was better to just use a Wynn 0.5 filter and recirculate the air, rather than worry about back-pressure problems. The joys of living in hot or very cold climates! The Blue Mountains in Australia are the absolute best place to live in. The majority of the year the temp during the day ranges from 60 to 80 F. Sydney has much the same range but for 9 to 10 months of the year instead of 7 to 8. The plus for the Mountains is that I can grow exquisite deciduous trees that don't stand a chance down in Sydney because the winters rarely get down to 50 F down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 I haven't installed yet, but my thoughts are that I will mount the DC outside in the same manner as Dwacker did. I can draw air back into the workshop from east, west or south at will. Remember when you duct it back in you need a filter. I just let my bin get to full because of the snow we are getting and now have about 50 gallons of poplar shavings all over behind the shop. I think Im just going to get rid of the bins all together and let it pile up then just shovel into the burn pit. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes Don. A 1 micron filter would be the way I would go if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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