Ken Wilsbach Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 looking at getting a decent table saw blade. I suppose i'm going to get a combination blade and am leaning towards a thin kerf blade due to the 1.5hp motor. any opinions on the matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Woodguy Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 The idea is, thin kerf takes less work to cut through harder woods, thus more ideal for lower powered saws. One thing to watch out with thin kerf blades involves riving knifes and/or blade guards, the thickness of the knife/spitter versus that of the blade. Burned myself on a thin kerf blade once because I didn't take that into consideration. The manufacturer may have a thin kerf knife, some may not (mine didn't). You can always have another knife grinded down to size (pain) or use an appropriate splitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Wilsbach Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 The idea is, thin kerf takes less work to cut through harder woods, thus more ideal for lower powered saws. One thing to watch out with thin kerf blades involves riving knifes and/or blade guards, the thickness of the knife/spitter versus that of the blade. Burned myself on a thin kerf blade once because I didn't take that into consideration. The manufacturer may have a thin kerf knife, some may not (mine didn't). You can always have another knife grinded down to size (pain) or use an appropriate splitter. Precisely why i'm asking. I'm going to be ordering http://theborkstore.com/product.sc?productId=6 and i need to decide on what blade i'll be using prior to my order. after i decide on the blade type, i can order the splitter, then look into the actual blade i'll be ordering, and then the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'd use a thin kerf blade on anything less than 2 HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Wilsbach Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 next question is, recommended blade? I'm thinking some combination blade for the TS, and a more specific 80 tooth for the panel saw to handle plywood. though, i guess this is now getting a wee bit off topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 <p>==>recommended blade Forest WWII 40T Thin Kerf : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Woodguy Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 <3 my Forrest blade. If you have a Rockler in your area, track down their mailer (sometimes they'll give you one in-store), they're always giving out 10% / 20 % / etc coupons out in the mail and are valid on Forrest blades (or anything non-machinery not named Festool or Sawstop, anyway). Alternatively, Freud blades are pretty decent too and less expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Wilsbach Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 no rockler... but it appears that i have a woodcraft store within 20 minutes of me well, according to google maps i do... according to woodcraft.com, i don't. must be some place that sells woodcraft stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Woodguy Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 no rockler... but it appears that i have a woodcraft store within 20 minutes of me well, according to google maps i do... according to woodcraft.com, i don't. must be some place that sells woodcraft stuff Woodcraft has coupons too in their mailers, though they don't seem to do them as often as Rockler, and not always as generous. Or they do in-store sales weekends (more often for certain brands). Otherwise, probably shop online for the best deals then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I would not jump on the thin kerf bandwagon yet. I'd run down to lowes and buy a cheap freud diablo full kerf blade and see what you think. Those saws were made with 1.5hp motors long before thin kerf blades were ever invented. If you find its not working out your not out much of anything. My 3hp pm 2000 does draws almost exactly (difference is to small to measure on the analog meter) the same amperage with a thin or full kerf 1/32 of an inch doesnt make a whole lot of difference. Your going to get more sharpening out of a good full kerf like the ww2. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I always preferred thin kerf on my 1.5 to 2hp saws....the was always excellent, the motor won't work as hard, and the feed pressure is a lot lower. The number of sharpenings you get should be independent of kerf width....it's the carbide height and thickness that dictate how many sharpenings. If you think you're going to score an 80T blade eventually, I'd opt for the 30T WWII TK. Great blade from thick rips to non-critical crosscuts....the 80T can take over for anything finer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Wilsbach Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I always preferred thin kerf on my 1.5 to 2hp saws....the was always excellent, the motor won't work as hard, and the feed pressure is a lot lower. The number of sharpenings you get should be independent of kerf width....it's the carbide height and thickness that dictate how many sharpenings. If you think you're going to score an 80T blade eventually, I'd opt for the 30T WWII TK. Great blade from thick rips to non-critical crosscuts....the 80T can take over for anything finer. i was thinking the 80t would stay in the panel saw since it'd be used mainly for handling plywood. i'm definitely leaning more towards a thin kerf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 To expand on my previous recommendation, you can use the .125 WW2 for most of your work and get nice results.... But if you take a liking to 8/4 hard maple, then your saw will appreciate the 3/32 for ripping sessions. You can always get the .125 for everyday use and the 3/32 for dedicated ripping. You will also have the extra blade when one goes to the sharpener… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Wilsbach Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 To expand on my previous recommendation, you can use the .125 WW2 for most of your work and get nice results.... But if you take a liking to 8/4 hard maple, then your saw will appreciate the 3/32 for ripping sessions. You can always get the .125 for everyday use and the 3/32 for dedicated ripping. You will also have the extra blade when one goes to the sharpener… you're numbers are a different language to me. are these kerf #'s? tooth distance? etc I've been learning about the tools in general, now i'm learning about specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Sorry about that, was talking kerf... Many folks like the 30T for dedicated ripping and the 40 for general purpose. Now it is a pain to switch between ripping and general purpose unless you develop a workflow that bins large ripping operations together to minimize blade changes... I tend to rip all my stock at the beginning of a project to reduce blade changes to about 1 a day. Many times you can use a 40T for everything, but 8/4 hard maple on a 1.75HP saw would be asking quite a bit unless it is a factory fresh sharpening... For ripping and general use, I use the .125 WW2 40T up to 10/4 (on a 5HP saw) for domestic lumber. When things go exotic (jenka above 2500), 12/4 and above or wet/gummy lumber, then I go dedicated .125 32T rip grind for ripping. Speaking of sharpening, the other consideration is sharpening frequency --- a .125 sharp blade is more efficient then a 3/32 dull one, same goes for 40T .v 30T... Most folks wait far too long between sharpenings and wonder why they are not getting good results... A WW2 should give about as good a result as possible, so if results start to drop-off (burning, feed rate, sound, etc), then the blade needs to a trip back to NJ (in the old days, you got a few free sharpenings with the blades)... You still may get them if you purchase direct from the factory, can't hurt to ask... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 The amount of sharpening is dependent on the amount of abuse the blade gets and how long you go between sharpening. The more abuse a blade gets the more agressive the shapening. Agressive sharpening reduces the times a blade can be sharpened. Thin kerf blades run hotter due to the wobble. Increased friction increases wear. The only way to judge a blade unless the differences are dramatic or visable to the eye is amperage draw. When these blades came out years ago the motivation was the usda's conservation of wood products. They showed a lumber mill could increase profits even after retrofitting cost. The market moved to the commercial woodworking industry where it was quickly dismissed as market hype and did not apply to smaller than mill sized equipment. Every large commercial manufacturer monitors saw amperage as a means to save money on power, equipment, and consumables like saw blades. Hobbiest use the guess method, the Internet and visible signs to determine what blade to buy or decide when it's time for service. This just makes blade manufacturers more money. Most would be surprised that their blades really could last twice as long if they just took care of them sooner. I generally get about a week and a half out of a full kerf ww2. That's light duty cutting sheet goods and 4/4 solid material. Same work I can I loose on average 3 days use with the same blade in thin kerf. On average the full kerf ww2 can be touched up 14 times the thin kerf is 9. The math doesn't lie but the myth continues. Folks tend to want to apply the thin kerf rule of thumb to hp and forget about rpm and torque. If a smaller hp saw has the right pulley configuration it will not see any benefit from a kerf change of 1/32. This part of the reason the unisaw was king for so many year. They put the effort into making the saw produce the right torque and rpm combination with a smaller up motor. I would not expect anyone to install an ampmeter on their saw as a hobbiest but a little experimenting goes a long ways. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 ==> Same work I can I loose on average 3 days use with the same blade in thin kerf. a bit confused on this point -- are the lost days due to lifespan? If so, you aren't loosing days in workflow, but expending $$ on replacement blades on the same calender. So higher shop cost. If the point is that the blades can be false economy, then agree. But I haven't used a 1.75HP TS in years, so I can't really remember what it was like to push 8/4 rips for 8hrs/day on that setup. Three less working days on a thin kerf vs full kerf. Basicly 1/3 less life between sharpening combined with 3 less available sharpenings makes them a real money maker for the saw blade companies. Im not saying people need to run out and equip their machine with an ampmeter. But you do need to look at things besides HP. HP is only part of the equasion, saw manufactures are pretty smart in terms of saw design. Its just looking at it from a differen perspective. Most never get to see beyond the information found on internet forums, most dont have a factory back ground so dispute the fact that their using dull or improper blades. Im cheap and if I can save a buck by using a specific blade then thats what I do. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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