Vic Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I guess im just lucky my basement shop doesn't have a lick of insulation, bare concrete walls,floor boards above head are just open no insulation and a bare concrete floor, all I did when I decided to make it into a workshop was to remove one of the duct pipes that went to a room that had two vents, sealed the vent going upstairs and left the pipe just blowing into the basement thermostat is upside and so far haven't noticed any difference in my bill or it kicking on and off more and so far (touch wood!) it has kept a constant temp of 65-70 all year around. I thought about going to all the trouble of insulating the walls and ceiling when I first decided to make it my shop but I guess I lucked out as it seems to be just fine.The only time it did get down to 60 was when we had the big blizzard a few weeks back but the temps was in the -10 to -18 Paul, unfortunately home audits are best performed in person, but here's what I gleaned from what you wrote. You had a house with an "unfinished" basement. No ducting was directed down there, no insulation, I'm assuming the door to the basement is a regular interior door or maybe an exterior door without weather stripping or floor sweep. Even if the door to the basement was a sealed exterior door, the fact that your basement ceiling/upstair floor was uninsulated (and probably not well sealed) means you were basically heating that downstairs space in the first place, which is why you would not see much, if any, change in your heating bill. Heat moves to cold. It's a basic physics principle. I'm guessing your ductwork was also uninsulated. As far as the concrete walls of your shop, it's hard to say how much building an insulated wall will affect your bills for the house. I can tell you that the wall is probably linked directly to the ground and in my area, that means it's constantly pulling the house to about 50 degrees via conduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 My shop has in floor radiant heat. If you have the opportunity to start from scratch, I would highly recommend it. That way the heat keeps the floor warm. It warms the tools. The heat travels past you instead of just being at the ceiling. It is a very even heat because even when it is on, the concrete slab stays warm for a while. If you're planning to be in your shop for 5 years, break out the slab and run the tubes! The heated floor will help quite a bit if, as in most cases, the slab was not done correctly and has a direct thermal connection to the ground. It will want to stay at the ground temp. As far as efficiency goes there are much better methods of heating that a hydronic system. But, yes, they do create quite a bit of comfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bywc Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Paul, unfortunately home audits are best performed in person, but here's what I gleaned from what you wrote. You had a house with an "unfinished" basement. No ducting was directed down there, no insulation, I'm assuming the door to the basement is a regular interior door or maybe an exterior door without weather stripping or floor sweep. Even if the door to the basement was a sealed exterior door, the fact that your basement ceiling/upstair floor was uninsulated (and probably not well sealed) means you were basically heating that downstairs space in the first place, which is why you would not see much, if any, change in your heating bill. Heat moves to cold. It's a basic physics principle. I'm guessing your ductwork was also uninsulated. As far as the concrete walls of your shop, it's hard to say how much building an insulated wall will affect your bills for the house. I can tell you that the wall is probably linked directly to the ground and in my area, that means it's constantly pulling the house to about 50 degrees via conduction. You know Vic that's pretty trippy you really know your stuff! 2 year ago when the electric went out for about 6 hours due to ice storm the temp in the house rapidly and I mean RAPIDLY!!! dropped to 54 then it kind of hung around there slowly dropping a degree every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 The heated floor will help quite a bit if, as in most cases, the slab was not done correctly and has a direct thermal connection to the ground. It will want to stay at the ground temp. As far as efficiency goes there are much better methods of heating that a hydronic system. But, yes, they do create quite a bit of comfort. Vic, You hit the nail on the head. The heated floor is very popular around here for shops and pole barns and the like. Some guys will tell you its dirt cheap to run others swear they're paying out the backside. The difference is whether or not the floor was properly isolated from the ground when poured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 You know Vic that's pretty trippy you really know your stuff! 2 year ago when the electric went out for about 6 hours due to ice storm the temp in the house rapidly and I mean RAPIDLY!!! dropped to 54 then it kind of hung around there slowly dropping a degree every so often. LOL...I HOPE I know my stuff. I get paid to dish it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bywc Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Oh lol then yeah no doubt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvallen224 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hi, my shop is in my attatched 2 car garage , approx. 22' x 25' with standard 8' ceiling. Before I moved the tools in, I insulated the three open walls and installed OSB board over them. At first I tried the typical 1500 watt space heater, but it was no good. I kept looking around and Home Depot had the Fahrenheat brand 220v heaters on clearance and I bought one to see how it would do. It's GREAT! It's an electric wall mounted unit, puts out 4000 watts, it has a fan and a thermostat to control the temp setting. Even when it's 20 degrees out, I typically just leave it on setting #2 or #3. I think it goes up to #6. It'll get plenty warm enough in the shop so I can work comfortably in a long sleeve shirt and jeans. Of course it's 220v and I installed in on the wall just underneath the subpanel I had to put in. Overall, a really easy install and works perfecto. Just so you know, I checked the Lowe's website and they sell that model on their site. It's the Fahrenheat 4000 watt 240v electric wall heater - Model FZL4004. It retails for $178.00. I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stidrvr Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Vic, Lemme ask you this. Im in the process of setting up my shop in the garage. The walls that are shared with interior space of the house are insulated and have a poly vapor barrier on the inside of the house. The shared walls are also drywalled on the garage side as per code for a fire stop. Now the "shop" side will not have a vapor barrier because it is on the other side. This wont be a problem since both sides will be heated, Correct? Also, as per code there is drywall installed on the ceiling of the whole garage (its a 3 car). But there wasnt any vapor barrier used because they never insulated it. So putting insulation up in the "attic" area over the garage without a vapor barrier would be technically wrong. So is it worth taking down the drywall on the ceiling to put up a vapor barrier. Heres a quick drawing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Vic, Lemme ask you this. Im in the process of setting up my shop in the garage. The walls that are shared with interior space of the house are insulated and have a poly vapor barrier on the inside of the house. The shared walls are also drywalled on the garage side as per code for a fire stop. Now the "shop" side will not have a vapor barrier because it is on the other side. This wont be a problem since both sides will be heated, Correct? Also, as per code there is drywall installed on the ceiling of the whole garage (its a 3 car). But there wasnt any vapor barrier used because they never insulated it. So putting insulation up in the "attic" area over the garage without a vapor barrier would be technically wrong. So is it worth taking down the drywall on the ceiling to put up a vapor barrier. Heres a quick drawing: Again, having someone local look and advise would be best. Considering you don't actually live in the shop, you wont be creating nearly as much moisture there as the rest of the house. A lot really depends on how you plan to heat the space, the type of environment you live in, etc. But, I would simply paint with a seal rated paint, which isn't the same as a vapor barrier. You could lay down a vapor barrier from the attic and just make sure it's in contact with the sheetrock. This isn't the optimal way, but considering cost. I live in a dry area and have R49 in cellulose up top with no vapor barrier. The cellulose does a good job of keeping down air movement. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of experience with moist climates due to my location. Saddlestrum has a lot more experience in the field than I do and could probably give better advice. You may want to PM him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmbutterfield Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hi all, I've read this item with interest and learned quite a bit. I'd like to verify, though. I have a detached 20 x 20 garage that I've insulated on three sides (batts) and the door as well (stryo inserts). I'm probably going to stretch a tarp along the rafters to hold most of the heat down in the work area, although I know I'll lose some. I'll have a 220 line soon. It looks like a 220v, 5000 watt heater may do the trick. I won't be heating all the time, nor do I need it to be 80 while I'm working out there. Temps in the winter are typically in the teens and twenties, although they drop lower from time to time. Most likely I'll work out there a couple of days a week for a few hours. I'm looking forward to not having to give up woodworking entirely for the winter months. Any and all advice will be appreciated. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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