Workshop dust collection system design


Scott Clark

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Thanks for the advice Don.

Am I correct to assume that if no grounding on the lines would only give you a zap on the lines, not on the machines because they are already earthed? If yes, I think maybe the thing to do would be to keep the dust lines out of touch.

It's the blast gates that zap you.

Don

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It's the blast gates that zap you.

Don

Well.......maybe that's the answer for me....I have plastic blast gates and 4" PVC. No metal tape....no grounding wire...no screws into the pvc line...and I never get shocked, not even a little. Let me say something else. Back when I ran my main wire to the shop - 6/3? I ran the two hot legs to the box and never grounded the box. when I wire something in the shop, I do install the ground wire into the block and just smile because the shop has no copper ground rod. Would probably be a good thing to have in the event of a lightning strike but I haven't yet done it. Having said all that, I have no idea why I don't get shocked by the DC lines or equipment. Maybe I'M THE POSITIVE AND IT'S THE GROUND and I shock the system when I touch it!!! HERE....HAVE SOME!!! :P
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Well.......maybe that's the answer for me....I have plastic blast gates and 4" PVC. No metal tape....no grounding wire...no screws into the pvc line...and I never get shocked, not even a little. Let me say something else. Back when I ran my main wire to the shop - 6/3? I ran the two hot legs to the box and never grounded the box. when I wire something in the shop, I do install the ground wire into the block and just smile because the shop has no copper ground rod. Would probably be a good thing to have in the event of a lightning strike but I haven't yet done it. Having said all that, I have no idea why I don't get shocked by the DC lines or equipment. Maybe I'M THE POSITIVE AND IT'S THE GROUND and I shock the system when I touch it!!! HERE....HAVE SOME!!! :P

Velocity! 6/3 :)

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Ok here are some photos of the the vacuum breaker. First one shows the side view and orientation of the fitting. 2nd one shows the top of the device and the valve plate and "bearing". The threaded piece is just a counter weight scrap. The threads have no function. 3rd photo shows the valve open fully and the last photo shows what it looks like when the blast gate is closed. It usually opens fully and then gradually closes as the DC slows down.

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50a @ only 110v not enough wires for a legal 220v service. Quick way to get screwed by insurance co if you have a fire.

Not sure what code is for my county but AAAHHHH!!!!!! :o :o Said the insurance agent who wrote the coverage on his own home..... :blink:

==> 50a @ only 110v not enough wires for a legal 220v service.

Yea, I think that's right -- don't have my book handy, but i think you can still have a 60a sub. I think you up-gauge somewhere between 96 and 130ft -- but i can never remember... that's what I was getting to.

i haven't got past the grounding yet... I'm 'assuming' he bonded the sub to the disconnect or he'd have seen issues by now...

==> Quick way to get screwed by insurance co if you have a fire...

yea, they get a real hard-on for uninspected electrics... I had my sub inspected when my service was upgraded for the shop (125a sub -- 130ft run, 2/0g). The guy only passed me when I installed twist locks on all my stationary tools... I was going to argue, but you need the sticker to pass...

I guess it's a good thing you guys pointed this out.....I'll have to call my friend in Building and Zoning. I know I have enough power to run things but whether it's up to code may be a different thing. The shop panel box is piggy backed off of the house panel box which is grounded. In the house, I installed a double 50A breaker and ran the 6/3 wire from that and in the shop, another double 50A breaker is the main breaker in the shop.

==> Back when I ran my main wire to the shop - 6/3? I ran the two hot legs to the box and never grounded the box.

Aside from the potential safety/code/insurance issues, you may impact the long-term lifespan of your tools depending on how they find ground...

With no local ground at the shop, are my tools in danger? If so, I can run another ground rod if it helps.
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I didn't mean to start the great debate here. I am more concerned with every time I touch a pipe or work surface that may be connected that I get a shock. Not so much of things blowing up. I have had my leg next to the separator connected to the sander and every few minuted I would get a good shock.... nothing fatal but slightly painful and annoying. I was mainly just looking to avoid the fact of touching anything in the shop and getting a shock.

Thanks for the input though..... it was quite educational! I have to keep my kids away from the post. Don't want to ruin Christmas for them! Everyone is supposed to believe in Santa! LOL!

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TimWood

It's 4 wires with matching breakers at either end. No ground stake required for attached shop, use existing. Detached requires ground. Detached can be a pain in the rear to ground to code. Underground water pipe is ok (water main), Ground rod has to be 8ft if resistance is to hight then second rod 8 ft has to be installed, footing rebar 20ft with continuity proof bar exposed 20ft from ground, last resort is buried cable.

Don

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Electrical codes in NY are pretty stringent. You need an earth ground for the main panel and if you have sub panels in a separate building they each need their own earth ground. You cannot use plumbing in that case. It needs to be a n 8ft copper rod outside the building. Even if it is not required it is a better way to do things. I totally agree.... talk to an inspector or hire an electrician if you don't know what you are doing with it.

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Electrical codes in NY are pretty stringent. You need an earth ground for the main panel and if you have sub panels in a separate building they each need their own earth ground. You cannot use plumbing in that case. It needs to be a n 8ft copper rod outside the building. Even if it is not required it is a better way to do things. I totally agree.... talk to an inspector or hire an electrician if you don't know what you are doing with it.

Its NEC Code minimum everywhere in the US.

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Best to explain just the facts about PVC. PVC is an insulator and cannot be grounded. People run copper lines inside and out, or aluminum tape hoping to "ground" the pipe. These copper or aluminum lines simply create a path for the charge that builds on the PVC to jump to. Since they are close to the pipe, it's usually the shortest path but that is not always the case. You can still get a shock. If you ever accidentally remove the grounded end for some reason and forget to reconnect it, get ready for the shock of your life. You don't want to be on the business end of that. Your best bet is to not worry about trying to "ground" PVC. Just connect the pipe and go.

I'm in the process of moving to metal pipe from PVC because of the occasional shocks. It's the ones that get you in the head that really piss you off. I was happy with the PVC as dust collection line for years, but decided to rearrange the shop and move to metal.

chris

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Wow!..great discussion guys. I've learned a bunch from both sides of the equation and generally feel better about the condition of my shop. The most important lesson for me seems to be, no matter what you believe about sparks, try to eliminate them if possible and use common sense to prevent excessive dust or vapors in the first place. Proper storage + dust control + good ventilation = SAFETY.

Thanks everyone...Happy New Year!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just ran 6" metal spiral duct to flex hose at the machines 3 weeks ago cost me about $520 shipped from the blastgateco.com they were 20-30% cheaper than pennstate and norfab and they custom designed all my wyes with reducers built in so I had no separate reducers to hook up I plumbed a from a 1 1/2 hp grizzly cyclone there cheapest cyclone to a 3" 20ft line for shop clean up a
5hp table saw,19"bandsaw,12" jointer,15"planer and a 24"dual drum sander with 6"&5" duct with only high quality hvac duct tape and some sheet metal screws with aluminum blast gates.
I'm very happy with the quality and price.
Keep in mind I already had all the flex hose and clamps so the $520 was only the metal duct work and blast gates if you had to buy the flex hoses plus hose clamps expect another $200 depending on shop layout and machines you have.
This was the 4th time I've redesigned my dc and last.

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