AMarshall Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Hi guys. I am hoping to get some opinions on an alternate design for the current Guild Build, the Greene & Greene Adirondack Chair. I've got "analysis paralysis" and can't decide which way to go. I'm playing around with the curves on the side leg. For reference, here is a picture of the plan as published. We can't really change the top curve without messing up the seat, but I was looking at that gentle 1/4" curve on the bottom of the side leg. How about using the "cloudlift" template down there? Marc and I had discussed doing this during the design phase, but we thought it might be pushing the G&G elements a little too far. What do you guys think? Here's a picture of the idea. Is it too much? Take a look from a different angle. Maybe the combination of the arms & back slats & sides would be too much? I've been staring at this design for so long that I've lost any objective view, so I am hoping for an intervention here. Thanks in advance for the comments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I think it's too much. It looks OK, but to me it looks "stamped out", "mass produced", "cheap". Just one man's first impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSTUCKEY Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I like the alternate side leg. You might try the cloudlift cut on the front support and see if that brings the base togerther. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_WoodWarden Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I think I like the cloud lift on the side leg version better, but both ways to me looks pretty good. @Dale S - I'm not sure if the cloud lift on front panel along with the slots would be too much or not. I suppose I would have to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinG Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I like it, its subtle but looks good. Having seen the alternative, I look at the original and think that it should have that detail across the bottom. Again, just one opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandmtf Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I like the alternate much better. It seems to bring it together just right and allows you to see the G&G influences from all sides. Good job! Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMarshall Posted July 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 @Chip: I respect that view. That was one of the original concerns, pushing it tooo far over the edge. Don't want something that screams "look at me!", but a balanced design. @Dale: Another version of the apron could have cloud lifts there too. We actually mocked that up too if I recall. When Marc found the dining table from the Gamble House we quickly settled on that element for the front apron. I guess I'm just having trouble "unseeing" it now that I've mocked it up. I might play around with something else too. Keep the comments coming, guys! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMarshall Posted July 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 After the first round of comments, I played around a little more and came up with this version. With just the single cloud lift at the front, I wonder if the leg is more in balance. It looks more subtle to me, but still works in the cloud lift element. Whatcha think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 With just the single cloud lift at the front, I wonder if the leg is more in balance. It looks more subtle to me, but still works in the cloud lift element. I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rihacker Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 consider adding the shoulder detail to the front as well since your adding it to the sides. Better yet...lets add a foot stool!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dax Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 I like this one the best. Single cloud lift. Go with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 I also like the one with the single cloud lift on the bottom near the front. I also agree with Dale's idea of putting a similar detail on the front apron. If you do that, I think you'll probably want to get rid of those "vent holes" to keep the front apron from looking too busy. One other thing you might try is to put both cloud lifts on the bottom as you had them in the first alternate you posted, and then REMOVE the cloud lift on the top of the leg near the rear. I think the main problem with the first alternate you posted is that it just looks too busy. Not sure if my idea will work or not, but it might be worth a sketch(up). -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. -- A. Lincoln I'm going to ignore that piece of wisdom and blurt out another idea. Even though the ebony plugs on a G&G piece are often purely decorative, they often hint at some structural aspect of the joinery. (Put more bluntly, they often look like they're hiding screw heads, even if there are no screws to be hidden.) In other words, they often look like they're there for a good reason, even if the reason is imaginary. So is there any similar justification for the placement of cloud lifts? Do they serve some purpose, real or imaginary? I don't have an answer for that one way or another. But if the answer is "yes", and you can state the purpose, then maybe applying the purpose to the leg of the chair would help to decide whether or not cloud lifts would be appropriate, and if so, where. Maybe part of what I'm trying to say here is that it would be better to use bits of the G&G design vocabulary only where they make sense, and avoid the temptation to cram in every possible G&G detail just because you can. -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flairwoodworks Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 I like the additional cloud lift on the side legs but feel that it is needed more on the front stretcher. Gotta say this is the wierdest piece of woodwork I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMarshall Posted July 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 I like it! Lol, that may be the end of the discussion! Thanks Chip. Maybe part of what I'm trying to say here is that it would be better to use bits of the G&G design vocabulary only where they make sense, and avoid the temptation to cram in every possible G&G detail just because you can. Agreed 100%, Russ. I got to the point where I felt I was using the "cloud lift" template everywhere, just because it was available. This is the reason I started this thread in the first place. I like the additional cloud lift on the side legs but feel that it is needed more on the front stretcher. Gotta say this is the wierdest piece of woodwork I've ever seen. The front stretcher design as originally published for the Guild comes directly from an actual piece of Greene & Greene furniture. The dining table from the Gamble House uses this type of element, as seen in the picture below. I don't think that the SketchUp plan does it justice since I didn't round over all the sharp edges. Having said that, I have to agree that the front stretcher design may not be the best fit for the rest of the chair. I may play around with some other options in SketchUp since pixels are free. Thanks for all the input on the side legs. I am 99% sure that I am going with Option #3 - the single cloud lift at the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flairwoodworks Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Aaron, Note that the pierced panels in the photograph you've attached are on the less-visible sides, not the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Crawford Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 After thinking about this I'm going to keep the original design as I like it less busy. I considered the single lift for a while but decided I preferred the flow of the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhl.verona Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 Given that it won't take you long to do in Sketchup... I agree with both comments made by Beechwood Chip, the second iteration is much better. But I also agree with Chris (flairwoodworks). Perhaps it would be worth moving the slots to the side and the cloud lift to the front? The slots could be curved (the upper more, the lower less) or just one straight slot. The cloud lifts would blend in with the "fiddly bits"TM under the arm rests. Fiddly bits is, of course, a well known G&G term... John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Aaron, Note that the pierced panels in the photograph you've attached are on the less-visible sides, not the front. While the "pierced panels" may technically be on the side of the table, they are actually positioned to be seen as one of the most prominent features of the table. The Greene Bros. clearly wanted this to be front and center when you walk in the dining room. Here's a nice shot to illustrate the point. This same feature is used in various places throughout G&G work including some awesome lamps and chairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdusty Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 After the first roudn of comments, I played around a little more and came up with this version. With just the single cloud lift at the front, I wonder if the leg is more in balance. It looks more subtle to me, but still works in the cloud lift element. Whatcha think? Very nice alternate design. I think that's a great look! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Adkins Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Aaron, I really like the second alteration. Very clean looking and think it would look great on the chair. Go for it man! Chris After the first roudn of comments, I played around a little more and came up with this version. With just the single cloud lift at the front, I wonder if the leg is more in balance. It looks more subtle to me, but still works in the cloud lift element. Whatcha think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 What I love about this is its a cool way to continue to refine the design. Aaron and I work hard to get the design to a point where its acceptable, but we are always working against time constraints. And some things don't become clear until the build is underway. But this community approach to refining the basic design is really exciting to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMarshall Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Keep the ideas coming, everybody! Like Marc said, we can freely modify the basic design. The side legs and the apron are great places to do this. As long as the joinery stays the same, all the rest is purely decorative. For my personal chair, I am going with the "single cloud lift" side leg. Once I drew it out on the actual leg, that was it. I'll probably play around with some other apron designs, incorporating the cloud lifts. I think we actually already did that so the file is probably laying around if I can find it... I saw the other thread where Jim is designing a footstool and table to go with the chairs. His footstool design uses the same "Gamble Dining Table" apron, and I really like the look of the set. Having the element repeated really makes it "belong". So maybe if you are making a single chair go with a cloud lift apron, and if you are making a set go with the apron in the original design? Hmmm... Thanks guys! If there is another idea that you want to see in SketchUp, let me know. I can try to assist. (Russ, I saw your idea above - I'll give it a shot.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood&Light Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Hi Aaron, I really like the addition of the single lift element at the front of the side leg - to my eye, it balances the lift on the top edge at the back of the side leg. I hope you'll post a drawing or photo of what you finally decide to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMarshall Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I really like the addition of the single lift element at the front of the side leg - to my eye, it balances the lift on the top edge at the back of the side leg. I hope you'll post a drawing or photo of what you finally decide to do. Thanks David, I have decided to do the single lift version for exactly the reasons you describe. I'll try to get some pics this weekend when I can get back into the shop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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