VitalBodies Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 So is the radial arm saw a thing of the past a relic or dinosaur? Have they been eclipsed by the table saw and miter saw? Are they worth the space they take up in the shop? Can dust collection ever be effective on one of these? Are they the best tool for something specific or even something general? Who is likely to have and use a Radial Arm Saw, the furniture maker, cabinet maker, or just the lumber yard? These and other questions one might ask if they have one, or watch them go by on CraigsList. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 I worked in a joinery shop during the 1980's and the specific thing that we manufactured were solid timber benchtops for kitchens. The timber was brushbox, an Australian hardwood that was extremely dense. Stability in the timber was maintained by glue laminating 3/4"strips x 1 &1/2" deep together. The usual width was 2 feet after laminating. The saw that we used to dock the lengths of finished 'slab' was the radial arm. Honestly, nothing else came close to what it could do. I guess that nowadays the track saws would do the same task, but a bit slower. I guess that what I am saying is that for industrial/commercial applications, the radial arm saw will be around for a few years yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffs1973@gmail.com Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 I hope to get my self one soon. My naigbour has one and the applications that he uses this on is countless. He can even mount a hand router on it. For me who likes to make stairs it wold be super laying out the stringers and route out the risers? (not totaly sure on the terminology) Regarding dust collection he has a big duct/funnel on the back side. I love this saw, but they cost a lot i Norway and ofcourse take up some space. Torgeir Robertsen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 think of it as a track saw and miter saw combined great for strait cut joints like a dado. also it is safe, it is the main saw that the kids use since it is set to just go strait and all they have to do is line up the line and pull back at them. i think its faster for repeat cuts then table saw or miter for making dados. it can be more accurate then miter saw since you arent changing the height or position of the arm on the saw much. while it is very useful for repeated cuts if you talking about a garage shop it takes up to much space that another tool can do that same thing with just with a little more work. and unlike the table saw it does not fight you to be thrown back wards. and like the miter saw you hold the wood on the sides and pull blade into the work rather then the work into the blade like a table saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Duckkisser, I have to disagree with your comment above. There are many things a radial arm saw does well. For industrial applications they are still going to exist because they add a measure of speed and accuracy that can be difficult to match by the much more common sliding compound miter saw. However, they are NOT SAFE!!! The trouble with a radial arm saw for the average person is that the cut is made toward you. Not only that but the blade spins such that if it were to get out of countrol it will run at the operator. Here's a link to a post I did about a year back: http://woodtalkonline.com/topic/2713-radial-arm-saws/page__fromsearch__1 In it I mention that Sears (Craftsman) had to stop producing Radial Arm Saws because they had over 10 times the number of lawsuits concerning them than they did with Table Saws, and oh by the way they produce 500 times more table saws. So, by my math than means they had a 5,000 times greater chance of a lawsuit for each Radial Arm Saw Sold than for each Table Saw Sold. ... I've since read that Delta and Dewalt experienced similar numbers. They also have stopped producing them outside of their industrial divisions. I am a safety first kind of guy. A Sliding Compound Miter saw is infinitely safer and can do everything nearly as well as a radial arm saw. I would miss my fingers too much to risk them. Free advice is worth what you pay for it, but I'd avoid the RAS and invest instead in a Festool Kapex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onboard Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Here are some other WTO links to add to Chet’s. #1 // #2 // #3 // #4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areynoldsre Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Back in the 70's I had a Radial Arm Saw in my home workshop - it was scary thing to use. I've replaced it with a compound miter saw - the miter saw does everything I need. I ended up selling my Radial Arm and haven't missed it. Seems to me that if you have specialized use for it that fine but it be in my home workshop again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 we use a negative saw blade and we clamp each board down so that it does not slide. only had it do that on me once when i tried to cut a cuped board long ways. we riged the saw so that it only cuts 90 degrees but we usualy only use it for ripping down lumber to length and cuting 90 degree dados for a shelf. but i will think about some kind of alternative just cant think of anything that is safer and as easy for the kids to use when cuting dados in boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimV Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 I'm not going to get into discussion of safety, Chet has done that quite well. I have a 1954 DeWalt, AMF Radial Arm saw in my shop. I am a hobbyist woodworker but I have an industrial machine. I would never use a version that Chet discusses. I crosscut 99.9% of the time with my machine and the machine is tuned as such. My machine crosscuts 12" with precision. I can't do that with a mitre saw but also do that on the table saw and sled when I'm so inclined. The difference is that if I have the TS set-up, I can quickly use the radial arm saw. A negative hook angled blade, a long extension fence and extended table surface makes control very nice. My dust collection consists of a small box behind the saw carriage and a smaller hose attached to the blade guard. It does a more than adequate job of containing the dust. For me, I think my machine is a valuable asset to my shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 I used a radial arm saw back in college when I first started making sets. When I started making my own shop I decided that I wanted one there too. A family friend offered me a old Dewalt that was gathering dust in his garage, I had dreams of making it work again. I got the book on Dewalts by Mr. Sawdust. The problem is it didn't have a brake, I didn't have the tool I need to remove the somewhat dull blade and I just wasn't comfortable with it. I gave it away to another friend who wanted it and got a compound miter saw. A good tool for some, but I think it's not necessary for a hobbyist, the functionality can be replicated by a combination of tools found in most shops. Not a slam on those who use them, just explaining why I chose to pass it on to someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonjarrard Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 i have an old dewalt ras, and a 12'' compound, the ras is built into my 20 foot work bench and i use it for 99 percent of my crosscuts and the hood i built and plexiglass front collects almost all of the dust, i do not see it as anymore dangerous than anything else with a three horspower motor slinging a blade at the speed of light. yes it cuts toward you but it is not going to jump off the arm and come and eat you. my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Hammerhead, you're right. It won't jump off the arm and come eat you. That's a funny image, by the way. I think the deal is that the blade tends to climb out of the stock rather than press the stock downward into the base like with a compound sliding miter. My guess is the other issue is it's a lot easier to know that your off-hand is in the path or distruction when you see it between the blade and the machine as oposed to between the machine and you. Does that make sense? Anyhoo, I don't use one because I'm a statistics guy. I wear my seat belt because statistically your chances of dying in a car accident become infinitely small if you wear one. I exercise regularly because statistics tell you that you live longer if you do. I don't run with the bulls or swim with sharks, because... well you get the idea. If according to Craftsman, you are statistically 5,000 times more likely to loss a digit to a radial arm saw than to the second most dangerous tool in the shop, the table saw... You guessed it, I avoid the radial arm saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VitalBodies Posted September 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Thanks everyone. I have an older Craftsman Radial Arm saw. It has a new guard and new (stock) table and has been tuned (by me so we will see). Some time back the guard was recalled and they sent out new ones (they still do I think). They sent a new table also! When doing research I got the impression people liked the older versions (including this one) and thought the new ones were of low quality. Many people seemed really happy with their Craftsman saw. I have not used this tool yet and it still needs a thin sacrificial top. I have a Makita sliding miter saw also - perhaps one of the first versions. On one hand, it is hard to see the two tools all that different in terms of danger used for your classic cross cuts and mitering. They are both on a track (so to speak) and can lurch towards you given the chance - but you know where they are likely to lurch to. At first glance and second thought I do not see how one is more threatening? Using the RAS to rip or make compound cuts or many (and there are many if you read the manual) of the specialty cuts that it can make I can well imagine the danger. These take both skill and knowledge and jigs and such. So is the danger really in cross cuts/mitering? If the blade lurches, is the problem that it also moves the head to the side/diagonal? Now that would be scary, as you would be anticipating it to lurch to a different location. Safety counts and as you all know, safety first - so what is the danger? Would be fun to see any dust collection/table/fence solutions if anyone cares to show theirs. I have something fun to show, but will have take a photo. How would you know a negative pitch blade if you "saw" one on the saw? Dado-ing? So would one do that with a dado blade installed or a router or one could go either route? Is one or the other preferred? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimV Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Here's my machine. I've since added cabinets on either side of the RAS and MS with countertop level with both tops. you can tell a negative rake blade by looking at the side of blade and note the angle of the tooth relative to the angle towards the center of the blade. Think of a piece of pie with the teeth at the two large corners of the pie. A 0 angle tooth will be inline with the edge of the pie, a negative hook tooth will be angled out and a positive hook will be angled in relative to the side of the pie. A negative hook blade doesn't grab as much as a positive rake tooth. Dado's, yes, replace the single blade for a dado blade of whatever thickness you desire and cut. *Safety note: Never place your off hand inline with the blade, period. I don't use my RAS for dado's, but many people do including Norm. I use my table saw or router if I need to do a long cross grain dado. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VitalBodies Posted September 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Nice looking setup. I got the impression that I should have a 1/4" sacrificial top on my saw which I still need to add, did you add one to yours? Nice how you have combined the tables to be one functioning unit. Are those plastic curtains? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 nice set up i like how you have incorporated it with the same table as you miter saw saves room. we dont use dato blades on the tool we just hold the board on the tool and shift the board over to cut out the dado out one cut at a time. we have a thicker sacrifical top since the kids can be fools and lower the blade to much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanWilley Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 I have two radial arm saws in my workshop and use both of them. I have an Elu 10" set into a long bench which I use for most if not all of my cross cuts and I have a smaller 8" Ryobi set up with a dado cutter set for trenching (Dados) I also have the large De Walt 718 sliding mitre saw which I use for angles and on site. I would never part with the Radial arms saws as they can trench cut far better than a sliding mitre saw which requires spacing out from the fence for a level cut. I have never had any issues with the Radial arms as if it is pulled to quickly through the timber it will stall. Mine is fitted with a strong return spring and itis fitted with a negative rake blade which ensures the timber is held down and back tot the fence when cutting. I also have a table saw but rarely use this for cross cutting as I have a rip blade on it for ripping lengths down. In my opinion a Radial arm used sensibly is as safe as any other cross cut saw, BUT! I would never use one for ripping as I think this could be a dengerous operation on this type of machine. This is just my opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimV Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Actually, I've also since this photo added an 1/8" masonite top to the 3/4" mdf. The masonite is the sacrificial top. I like to set the blade depth about 1/16" into the top. I should really take a new photo. Yes, the plastic is part of a plastic curtain I close to enclose a "spray booth" that exhausts out that window above the saws. The plastic is to cover the saws at that point. I should really take a new photo of that too since it is just a little different now also. I really need to get up to date on my photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Im not allowed to have a RAS anymore after leaving the end of my index finger on the saw table. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VitalBodies Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Im not allowed to have a RAS anymore after leaving the end of my index finger on the saw table. Don So what happened, if you care to share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 So what happened, if you care to share? ADD got the best of me and I wacked the end of it off. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VitalBodies Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I am assuming you mean Attention Deficit Disorder? Wow, that is challenge. Anything that deals with attention and focus makes quite a difference in any and all parts of ones life. Memory is another big one, to have that be challenged is challenging also. So the problem was not the saw itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I am assuming you mean Attention Deficit Disorder? Wow, that is challenge. Anything that deals with attention and focus makes quite a difference in any and all parts of ones life. Memory is another big one, to have that be challenged is challenging also. So the problem was not the saw itself. The ADD part was a joke. RAS are just plain dangerous if you don't focus all of your attention on the task at hand. I learned the hard way and decided that my mind wanders to much and am focused on the next task so no more RAS. IMO a RAS is more dangerous than even the shaper. I worked in a door plant years ago and the RAS would send more workers to the ER than any other piece of equipment. We lost at least one temp a week which is pretty sad considering these were only temporary employees. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VitalBodies Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Wow, what was the number 2 worst? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VitalBodies Posted September 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 I get the impression the blade in my saw is a cheapo steel blade without carbon teeth. Anyone have a suggestion for a decent blade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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