popping the maple

[falconfc]

hey guys

i just watched the popping the maple pod cast and have a question.

can you get the same effect by using boiled linseed oil for the first coat

and then apply your finish coats (arm r seal oil and urethane)

i see a lot of people using boiled linseed oil and was wondering

thanks

[Bob Rozaieski]

If you are going to top coat with a film finish, the BLO under the finish will not really add anything. That's because once you fill the pores with a film finish, the effect of the oil in the wood is lost. Kari Hultman did an experiment on this on her blog, and there have been several articles written about it by well respected professional finishers as well. So yes, the oil will pop the grain, but only until you apply the film finish. After the film finish is applied, the affect of the oil finish under it is lost.

[thewoodwhisperer]

To add some thoughts to Bob's (by the way, Hi Bob!), I feel there's a bit of redundancy to that process as well. Popping the grain, from my experience/research, relies on two things. First, you need something that causes the different grain patterns to have increased contrast. And secondly you need a finish that highlights the depth of the wood and gives the grain a 3D quality. The contrast can be accomplished in a number of ways, but two common ones are with dyes/stains and with oils. Dyes/stains create a more drastic effect and oils are more subtle. Oils have a natural amber color to them and when you have wild figured grain, the more absorbant areas will pull more oil in and darken considerably. The concept is the same when you add color to the surface, and the more absorbant areas take up more color. Now if you use BLO on the surface, and follow that up with coats oil-based varnish, there will be very little detectable difference between that and simply using varnish from the beginning with no BLO. Of course some may disagree with me but this is speaking from my personal experience. So avoiding the oil not only decreases your finishing time, but also prevents some finishing problems that may result when you go to apply your varnish over an oiled surface that may not be 100% cured.

So if you are looking to pop the grain, I say make it easy on yourself and use a water-based dye. If you don't want a crazy amount of contrast, just use a lighter color. Sand it back to lighten the background and you'll find the deeper grain pulls the color in nicely. Topcoat with your finish of choice. In the end you'll have superior grain contrast in probably half the time.

[falconfc]

thanks guys

that makes sense.

[gfee]

Marc, first time viewer, like your presentation, nice and relaxed and to the pt.

this maple thing is far and wide as a topic it seems, so it interests me very much at this pt in my new dining table project read much on blotching, you use the cut shellac with gel, others swear by the pre-stain conditioner, others say just fine sand and spray dyes on and the list seems endless. I just want it to look good with some color added, minimize blotching and have grain or character showing through. I likely will finish with a poly, but there are pocket holes in the top that could get food caught, so that's another issue, but primary is getting the color stain or dye into the wood correctly. I have done some samples, dye brushed on, conditioner with same dye, conditioner with deft med walnut... will pick up shellac and gel stain today. So far, conditioner deft med walnut looks best. I also tried with conditioner drying long and drying short, short was better. appreciate your input before I lay down the color. this greg (images attached)

[Zignot5]

Hi guys.

I've been watching the popping the maple video, but so far I'm unable to achieve the same results. I'm using the same brands & products. I sanded the test piece, applied the tint mixed in shellac, sanded to 180, and did a clear coat over it. The contrast between the light and dark stripes is minimal. I've tried darker dyes, a heavier coat, leaving it on longer, sanding less, sanding only to 120 before staining, etc. All have had a mediocre effects.

Any ideas what am I doing wrong???

Could it be because I'm using hard tiger maple instead of soft? Or the way the wood is cut?

I'd appreciate any advice on this.

Thank you

Adam

[preeng2]

Can you post a picture of your result? Have you tried applying a water dye first and then sand back. You can then apply another coat of dye and sand back again before sealing with the shellac and then the topcoat.

[Trip]

Charles Neil has a good video on popping the grain using a dye trace coat. I think it's on YouTube or maybe his free site. He covers BLO and addresses 'lots of folks are using it'. To paraphrase, yes it's in all the classic texts on finishing, but those texts are now more then 10 years old and many of these folks are not using BLO anymore.

[Zignot5]

Thanks for the input.

I'll try waterbased next.

I did try out a piece of soft curly maple. It came out with more contrast than the hard maple.