Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 I build toy boxes out of knotty cypress. I don't usually use a stain conditioner but this client wants a very dark stain and consistency might be an issue. I have used the Minwax conditioner before and was not impressed. So I did some research on making my own conditioner. It seems that it is just a sealer like poly or BLO that is diluted with mineral spirits? I'm afraid of applying poly before trying to get such a dark stain to take so I chose the BLO route. The post I read suggested a 20%BLO/80%mineral spirits mix and it said that if the stain doesn't take use less varnish, and if it's splotchy use a little more varnish. What it didn't say was how long after applying the BLO mix should I start staining. Any help or advice would be appreciated! And I know how much you kids like photos, so here's the toy box: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Kinda embarrassed the shop is such a mess. I have been working a lot of overtime lately and my shop has been very neglected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Personally, I prefer thinned shellac as a sealer / conditioner, because it dries quickly, and adheres to most top coats quite well. If you prefer an oil-based conditioner, I would use thinned polyurathane, rather than BLO. In either case, be aware that the stain will not penetrate the wood as easily, so more coats or a darker color may be required. My experience with softer woods like pine, cedar, and cypress, indicates that a more even coloration is achieved if you first apply a fairly heavy sealer, then use a gel stain as a glaze over that. The glaze sits on top of the seal coat, rather than penetrating, and must be coated over with a clear topcoat or it will wear off. This looks best when a dark, even color is desired on a wood that will normally take stain unevenly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 I haven't used gel stains much. Don't really care for the idea of them. I like that a regular oils stain penetrates the wood and brings out more depth and character. Will this still be achieved with the method you suggested. This being knotty cypress I'd prefer to accentuate the woods figuring and imperfections as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Blotching is caused because the stain is penetrating the wood, and some areas soak up more than others...precisely what you're trying to avoid. You can't really have your cake and eat it, too. If you're concerned about blotching, I'd do what wtn suggests. Or use a spray system. Get yoself a DC yo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Lol. I know. I have plans for putting up walls and insulating the shop this winter then ducting out for dust collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 The gel stain over sealer is going to hide the wood grain and 'imperfections' more that a direct application of stain. All depends on what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 So if I use a poly based conditioner and immediately stain before the poly cures could I still have the stain soak into the wood yet not be splotchy cause the more porous parts are already saturated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Well I'm not planning on painting this piece. The client went through the trouble of going to Home Depot and picking out a stain she likes so I don't think that's the looks she going for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 For dark colors on light woods use dye. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Never used any dye before. Isn't there a slight learning curve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 At any rate. I'm pretty much stuck using this stain for this particular piece since the client already picked out the color she wanted. I might try some of these suggestions on the next piece. Honestly I think I could Hand rub the stain with a rag and get "good enough" results but I'm always looking for ways improve my work quality. So I take it conditioners are for when a light taking of stain is required? What do y'all say about letting the varnish mix cure before applying the stain? If I do go this route should I stain immediately after the conditioner is applied? Or should I just ditch the conditioner entirely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 You may wanna think long-term here...obviously you do some commissions...I don't know if you're full-time or part-time, but either way, a spray system is gonna save you lots of time in the future and yield more professional results in the meantime. Think of it as an investment. If I were in your shoes, I'd be placing an Amazon order this morning. Hopefully you're making enough on this project that you could buy a modest system with the profits. But that's me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 I aways use stain right after a conditioner. One of its other purposes is to lighten and even out stains. On red oak the open grain will stain much darker unless you use a conditioner. Dyes have a learning curve. I spray mine. If you dilute the dye you can spray multiple coats and sneak up on the desired level of darkness. You can also use dye under stain . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Kiki, I have my shop plumbed with air lines already. Also on the shop improvement plains is a 10x10 ventilated finish room in the corner. I will be outfitting this with a sprayer. It's a work in progress. Poor man got poor man ways. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Indy, I have a Facebook page with many toy boxes I have built before. She found me through that page and liked the look of the boxes a have built already. It's just a simple stain+poly finish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Oh yes. I love the distressed painted look. I recently built this for another client: I just don't think that's what she is going for. She wants to see the grain. She just wants it a very dark chocolate color. You must sell milk paint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Plus I prefer poly for children's furniture because it is very durable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 I haven't tried any milk paint. But I have used the chalk paint a few times. I'm not too crazy about it. It doesn't seem very durable. Don't really know the differences between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 I'm surprised Wdwerker didn't mention the practice of applying a 'neutral' (un-colored) version of the same brand stain as a blotch contol measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Bailey Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 bit of a novice here but I've been playing around with staining softwoods by pre-treating with pore fillers - fill the pores first as a pre-stain then apply stain then a varnish finish, does a really good job of darkening the wood, accenting the grain while not blotching too much. turned some pine into a knotty dark cherry wood that way, though I don't have a pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Highlander, that's a great idea! I will see if I can source a neutral color tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Highlander, that's a great idea! I will see if I can source a neutral color tonight. Thanks, but I don't claim originality. I believe Wdwerker has mentioned this technique in many other threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 That was understood. There's nothing new under the sun. We are all just teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted September 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Ok... So I went the 20/40 BLO and mineral spirits route. I'll post photos later. But it seems work time is the key here. I rubbed a moderate amount of BLO onto the entire work surface then immediately rubbed in the stain. When I first started while the wood was still damp from saturation it was like the entire surface would soak in just a certain amount of stain the the rest would be left to stead around. The color was deep, rich, and very even. As I got closer to the end there were more parts that did not want to take much stain at all and some splotchiness started to appear. My hypothesis is that the wet conditioner helps the stain flow into the grain even, but once it starts to dry (even a little bit) it hinders too much absorption of the stain. Tonight I am gonna sand back the parts that are splotchy or lighter and re stain them. Will probably spot treat with conditioner as I finish each section, but I'm worried that the mineral spirits, if applied too liberally, with harm the nearby sections that are already stained sufficiently. So I may just sand and spot stain with no conditioner. I have decided I don't like staining projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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