workbench

[AMarshall]

thanks, Aaron...very helpful...I'm looking at the Beech countertops. This is gong to be my big post-holiday project...I'm taking the time between now and then to gather this good info. That face vise question is basically the remaining point I'm dealing with now. One of the things I couldn't really grasp from Schwarz' book was how the crochet actually grips the work...suppose you need a a pin or hold fast underneath it?

With a crochet you just lightly "jam" the board you are trying to hold into the crochet, then support the bottom edge of the board with a couple pegs in the leg or wherever. Depending on the length of the board, you may use the sliding deadman for the far end. Then when you plane, assuming you are right-handed you work toward the crochet so any pressure just tightens the pinching action of the crochet. You could add a holdfast somewhere along the board if you wanted to, but from what I understand this is not always needed.

[AMarshall]

Aaron,

Nice bench. I'm betting it'd make Adam King pround with it's functional minimalism. Are there drawers or doors on the other side of the base?

Dyami, thanks! There is a bank of drawers in the left cabinet, and the right cabinet is actually a flip top stand for my DW735 planer. I'll be putting details up on my blog in the coming days, now that construction is done and the thing actually works! http://garageshop.blogspot.com/2010/11/workbench-beware-new.html

[Dyami Plotke]

Dyami, thanks! There is a bank of drawers in the left cabinet, and the right cabinet is actually a flip top stand for my DW735 planer. I'll be putting details up on my blog in the coming days, now that construction is done and the thing actually works! http://garageshop.blogspot.com/2010/11/workbench-beware-new.html

Thanks, Aaron. I'll be checking your blog soon as I post this.

[CJC5151]

Ofcoarse everyone wants to build that heavy duty(stressing heavy)workbench out of beautifu beach or rock maple. But it cost a small fortune for material. I saw two articles that tweeked my interest lately. One was to make the whole bench (top and all) out of construction grade lvls. Heavy as heck and very stable. The one i think im going to do is to make the whole bench out of doug fir. Nice and heavy and you can get it at a local Lumber yard. It may not be my perminent solution but I priced material at about 200 bones. Im planning to get started after the holidays. Ill shoot you some picks as I go

[AMarshall]

Ofcoarse everyone wants to build that heavy duty(stressing heavy)workbench out of beautifu beach or rock maple. But it cost a small fortune for material. I saw two articles that tweeked my interest lately. One was to make the whole bench (top and all) out of construction grade lvls. Heavy as heck and very stable. The one i think im going to do is to make the whole bench out of doug fir. Nice and heavy and you can get it at a local Lumber yard. It may not be my perminent solution but I priced material at about 200 bones. Im planning to get started after the holidays. Ill shoot you some picks as I go

I agree, save the nice wood for a piece of furniture. I went with the LVL's for my top, and I would do it again. They are denser than the fir or Southern Yellow Pine (SYP) so you would think the top would end up heavier, but the LVL is also stiffer than the regular lumber so you can get away with a thinner top and save weight overall. With the LVL, you will want to wrap the edges with a veneer - the edges look cruddy and splinter easily when unprotected.

I have seen comments that LVL is not a great material for the base. It compresses a lot so any bolts squish it and can work loose more easily.

[Onboard]

I really like the idea of laminating a couple of Ikea counter tops together for a workbench top (as suggested by Gardnesd). It would save some money and make assembly of the top quicker and easier. However, the following thoughts went through my mind in considering the use of two of these counter tops in making a workbench. I’m sure there may be other considerations, but these are a few I thought about. I’m hoping someone can tell me that if my concerns are valid or not. Hopefully their not valid.

First, what would be the recommended glue / adhesive to laminate two of these tops together?

I noticed that the width is almost 40”, which as a convention is very wide for a workbench. It’s not a law by any means, but most workbenches I’ve seen are about (with an emphasis on the about) 24” to around 30” wide. I can certainly leave it 40”, but if I wanted something narrower I’d have to rip the width down. At 40” I could use the workbench for an assembly table as well as a workbench.

By the way, I saw on the Ikea webpage a drop down box called “Color”. However, I noticed that it is not simply color, but an actual change of the type of wood used. They offer Beech, Birch & Oak. I also noticed that the thickness changes for the Birch and Oak. Beech is 1 3/4” thick, but the Birch & Oak are 1 7/8” thick. Bonding two together would give me a 3 1/2” or a 3 3/4” thick top. Also the Oak was the heaviest top at 128 pounds (or 256 pounds for two), the Birch is the lightest at 99 pounds (or 198 pounds for two) and the Beech is 104 pounds (or 208 pounds for two).

Another thing I was wondering about the Ikea tops are how flat they are. I could do some hand planing (or try the router method) if they turned out not to be flat. I was also wondering how flat will the top remain over time as far as wood movement from expansion and contraction. Hopefully no cupping will occur. I see that the Ikea tops are made up of many small pieces of wood that are finger jointed together. Not sure about cutting through that, although it may be okay. The hope is that all those multiple finger jointed pieces of wood would behave as one monolithic piece of wood. I would think that with two of these tops bonded together that the tendency to move would be less than a single top. I was also wondering about mounting the top to a base. Typically a Roubo joins the top and base via joinery, but I guess you could create a connection otherwise.

What else should I be concerned about?

[singlespeed68]

I wish I would of saw this post earlier, I'm building a proto type bench before the real thing. To figure out good hieght and width, and what options I want. I'm using a solid core door for the top, it's flat and heavy, but not happy about the particle board inside.

[AMarshall]

...I’m hoping someone can tell me that if my concerns are valid or not. Hopefully their not valid.

I'll give it a try, what the heck!

First, what would be the recommended glue / adhesive to laminate two of these tops together?

I would stick with any PVA glue. Titebond I is fine. Maybe Titebond Extend if you need a little more time for the glue-up. In other words, nothing special required.

I noticed that the width is almost 40”, which as a convention is very wide for a workbench. It’s not a law by any means, but most workbenches I’ve seen are about (with an emphasis on the about) 24” to around 30” wide. I can certainly leave it 40”, but if I wanted something narrower I’d have to rip the width down. At 40” I could use the workbench for an assembly table as well as a workbench.

They do have a 25" wide option also, FYI. This is a more typical bench size. You could always take the 40" and rip it in two for the laminations, making a 20" wide bench. The rule of thumb i have heard is to go for at least 18"-20" minimum depth, front to back.

By the way, I saw on the Ikea webpage a drop down box called “Color”. However, I noticed that it is not simply color, but an actual change of the type of wood used. They offer Beech, Birch & Oak. I also noticed that the thickness changes for the Birch and Oak. Beech is 1 3/4” thick, but the Birch & Oak are 1 7/8” thick. Bonding two together would give me a 3 1/2” or a 3 3/4” thick top. Also the Oak was the heaviest top at 128 pounds (or 256 pounds for two), the Birch is the lightest at 99 pounds (or 198 pounds for two) and the Beech is 104 pounds (or 208 pounds for two).

Strange, but some of the other sizes they offer (the 25" deep) are not listed as the same thickness. For instance, birch is 1 3/4 if 25" wide, or 1 7/8 thick if 40" wide. Shouldn't matter to you, it's just strange.

Another thing I was wondering about the Ikea tops are how flat they are. I could do some hand planing (or try the router method) if they turned out not to be flat. I was also wondering how flat will the top remain over time as far as wood movement from expansion and contraction. Hopefully no cupping will occur.

I have used these tops, and they are plenty flat. If your base is square you should be fine. You will want to be careful to keep them flat while laminating the two layers though.

I see that the Ikea tops are made up of many small pieces of wood that are finger jointed together. Not sure about cutting through that, although it may be okay. The hope is that all those multiple finger jointed pieces of wood would behave as one monolithic piece of wood. I would think that with two of these tops bonded together that the tendency to move would be less than a single top.

These should be very stable over time, at leat as stable as any other bench top. The finger joints won't give you any trouble with cutting - it's just more glue.

I was also wondering about mounting the top to a base. Typically a Roubo joins the top and base via joinery, but I guess you could create a connection otherwise.

Lots of options. I would go with bolts, with some allowance for the top to expand seasonally. Bolt the front tight, and make the rear bolt holes slotted for instance?

What else should I be concerned about?

The economy, global warming, and stuff like that. Oh, and you may also want to check out the "Lagan" countertops from Ikea. Here is the link They are beech, and don't have as many sizes. They are a little thinner at 1 1/8" thick, but a lot cheaper than the Numerar we have been talking about.

Who comes up with these names for Ikea, anyway?

[Onboard]

Aaron, I greatly appreciate your detailed break down. Thank you. I missed the “other” sizes. It looks like instead of a 6’ 1” long bench I could have an 8' long bench! With your reassurances I think that not only is this good information for me, but will be good information for other woodworkers looking to build a sturdy but lower cost bench.

I guess you have to speak Swedish to parse those names. I compared the NUMERÄR in the longer dimension (and narrower), as well as the one you pointed out, the LAGAN. If I get the NUMERÄR in the 96 7/8” length it will be 25 5/8” wide and 1 1/2” thick. Times two makes it 3” thick. That sounds like a decent bench top to me. However, if I get the LAGAN it’s 96 7/8” by 25 5/8” by 1 1/8” as you noted. Times two makes it 2 1/4” thick. Weight wise the LAGAN package is 77# (which includes the cardboard and Styrofoam), so I’ll say maybe 70# which would give me a 140# top. The NUMERÄR is 97# with packing so lets say 90# or a 180# top. Cost wise it would be $338 versus $118. So, the question is, would the extra 3/4” thickness and the extra 40# be worth the extra $220 in cost? I’m wondering also if there’s a quality difference between the two, but no way to know.

I think comparing the cost of the thicker (and heavier) top, made up of two NUMERÄR, would be insignificant compared to a commercially made bench. That is, the extra $220 could easily be worth it. Of course if a 6’ 1” bench suited ones needs then the prices would drop quite a bit for a 25” bench width. A NUMERÄR would cost $258 at 73”, but there is no 73” version of the LAGAN (only 49”). The thought just occurred to me that I could glue together 3 LAGAN tops and have a 3 3/8” bench top (by 8' long). That would cost $177. I don’t know if that would make a better bench top, but cost wise you would still be $161 cheaper than the NUMERÄR.

One last question. The NUMERÄR comes in Birch, Beech or Oak (all the same price). I’m not sure which species of each they are made of, but except for a Birch called Paper Birch, they all seem to have a Janka hardness above 1200. So, which would be the preferred wood for a workbench top? Of course I also need to keep in mind that more than likely these countertops came from China which brings in other possibilities. What is your opinion?

I'll give it a try, what the heck!

I would stick with any PVA glue. Titebond I is fine. Maybe Titebond Extend if you need a little more time for the glue-up. In other words, nothing special required.

They do have a 25" wide option also, FYI. This is a more typical bench size. You could always take the 40" and rip it in two for the laminations, making a 20" wide bench. The rule of thumb i have heard is to go for at least 18"-20" minimum depth, front to back.

Strange, but some of the other sizes they offer (the 25" deep) are not listed as the same thickness. For instance, birch is 1 3/4 if 25" wide, or 1 7/8 thick if 40" wide. Shouldn't matter to you, it's just strange.

I have used these tops, and they are plenty flat. If your base is square you should be fine. You will want to be careful to keep them flat while laminating the two layers though.

These should be very stable over time, at leat as stable as any other bench top. The finger joints won't give you any trouble with cutting - it's just more glue.

Lots of options. I would go with bolts, with some allowance for the top to expand seasonally. Bolt the front tight, and make the rear bolt holes slotted for instance?

The economy, global warming, and stuff like that. Oh, and you may also want to check out the "Lagan" countertops from Ikea. Here is the link They are beech, and don't have as many sizes. They are a little thinner at 1 1/8" thick, but a lot cheaper than the Numerar we have been talking about.

Who comes up with these names for Ikea, anyway?

[AMarshall]

Hmmm and hmmm. Very nice cost analysis, Onboard! Truly a man after my own heart.

Regarding the Janka scale, I checked and Southern Yellow Pine comes in at just 690. This is often recommended for benches by folks who know a lot more than myself, so I think you would be more than pleased with any of the species offered at Ikea - Birch, Beech, or Oak. All other things being equal, I personally would go with Birch. I just don't like the look of Oak very much, and Birch is a lighter than Beech (at least in Ikea-land) so visibility would be better. Your work would stand out against the light bench. But for me cost trumps the color of the wood - the typical advice is to use whatever cheap plentiful wood can be found locally. Of course, that was before Ikea disrupted the global wood market by making things available anywhere.

Between the NUMERÄR and the LAGAN, it really depends on how much glueing up you want to do. I would think that either 2 or 3 layers will be just as stable after you glue them up, so I wouldn't have long term concerns if you go with 3 layers of LAGAN. Either way, make sure you get full glue coverage - maybe try a small paint roller for quick application.

I have worked only with the NUMERÄR in the past, but I would bet there isn't much difference with the LAGAN. To save costs, LAGAN is thinner but it may also have shorter individual pieces before glue-up. Maybe the color matching isn't as good either, but for a workbench that would be fine. This isn't exactly hard evidence of anything, but I noticed that the same picture is used on the Ikea site for both the NUMERÄR and LAGAN beech options - literally the NUMERÄR is just zoomed tighter.

I'm cheap, so I vote for 3 LAGANs and lots of glue.

[Onboard]

Aaron, thank you for stopping by and taking the time to read through my musings. I really wasn’t expecting your return visit. I agree, “all things being equal” (well, we can hope at least), it looks like the LAGAN X 3 wins in the economy class. Lets see, 3 X ~70# = 210# for just the bench top. That would be a great start on a very stable bench. That would also be one interesting glue up! Just need to determine the best base for such a bench. Thank you again.

Hmmm and hmmm. Very nice cost analysis, Onboard! Truly a man after my own heart.

Regarding the Janka scale, I checked and Southern Yellow Pine comes in at just 690. This is often recommended for benches by folks who know a lot more than myself, so I think you would be more than pleased with any of the species offered at Ikea - Birch, Beech, or Oak. All other things being equal, I personally would go with Birch. I just don't like the look of Oak very much, and Birch is a lighter than Beech (at least in Ikea-land) so visibility would be better. Your work would stand out against the light bench. But for me cost trumps the color of the wood - the typical advice is to use whatever cheap plentiful wood can be found locally. Of course, that was before Ikea disrupted the global wood market by making things available anywhere.

Between the NUMERÄR and the LAGAN, it really depends on how much glueing up you want to do. I would think that either 2 or 3 layers will be just as stable after you glue them up, so I wouldn't have long term concerns if you go with 3 layers of LAGAN. Either way, make sure you get full glue coverage - maybe try a small paint roller for quick application.

I have worked only with the NUMERÄR in the past, but I would bet there isn't much difference with the LAGAN. To save costs, LAGAN is thinner but it may also have shorter individual pieces before glue-up. Maybe the color matching isn't as good either, but for a workbench that would be fine. This isn't exactly hard evidence of anything, but I noticed that the same picture is used on the Ikea site for both the NUMERÄR and LAGAN beech options - literally the NUMERÄR is just zoomed tighter.

I'm cheap, so I vote for 3 LAGANs and lots of glue.

[Roger T]

Aaron, thank you for stopping by and taking the time to read through my musings. I really wasn’t expecting your return visit. I agree, “all things being equal” (well, we can hope at least), it looks like the LAGAN X 3 wins in the economy class. Lets see, 3 X ~70# = 210# for just the bench top. That would be a great start on a very stable bench. That would also be one interesting glue up! Just need to determine the best base for such a bench. Thank you again.

Morning all,

Wow, this post is just so timely. Right now I am in the middle of making the $175 Workbench from PopWW. I have the base built already, actually just finished it Tuesday night. I wanted a longer bench so increased its size by 14" in length, but kept the width the same. Link here, http://www.popularwoodworking.com/upload/contents/290/175Workbench2.pdf

I have all the Doug Fir stock bought and down in the basement/workshop waiting to be prepped and glued up. But have a cabinet job for a friend to start today. I've been longing for a real WW'ing bench for a very long time, as the one I am using now is just a 2x4 frame, with a sheet of 3/4" ply on top with a Record face vice. This also serves as a Miter station for the DW 12" slider. This bench does neither well, but it has worked for many years.

All this time the wife has been saying, are you going to be happy with the bench you are building, and admittedly, I said no, but it's what I can afford right now, the cost of 2x10's vesus the cost of a maple bench top. Plus all the work of cutting, 4sq all the stock, and the glue up. ARGGGGGGGG..

This Ikea deal with the premade tops is like a dream come true. Thick heavy benchtop, almost instantly. One concern I have tho is, on the top description, it says, oil and solid Beech. The oil finish on the tops has me worried about adhesion of the glue. Anyone else see any problems with this?

I think a trip to Home Depot to return the doug fir is in order as well as a trip to Ikea for 3 countertops. B) B)

Roger

[Onboard]

The best laid plans of mice and woodworkers oft goes awry. Good catch Roger! The basic concept seems good, but your right, what do you do with an oiled wood surface when you want to bond two pieces together? I guess the question may be, how deep does the oil penetrate? At least it's not end grain. I wonder if these tops can be ordered without the oil applied? If not, then can it be scraped off, sanded off or planed off? At almost 18 sq. ft. of surface area for one top, that could become quite a job since you would be dealing with 4 surfaces.

Can the oil be removed with a solvent? Or, the oil “neutralized” somehow to allow bonding. Maybe a solvent based adhesive? Epoxy? Once you get away from a standard wood glue things could get much more expensive. I realize that you can use mechanical fasteners to bind the tops together but I don't think any mechanical fastener would be as good as glue. Also, the fasteners would have to be strategically placed so they would not interfere with drilling dog holes or fastening vises, etc.. Okay Aaron, where art thou?

Morning all,

Wow, this post is just so timely. Right now I am in the middle of making the $175 Workbench from PopWW. I have the base built already, actually just finished it Tuesday night. I wanted a longer bench so increased its size by 14" in length, but kept the width the same. Link here, http://www.popularwoodworking.com/upload/contents/290/175Workbench2.pdf

I have all the Doug Fir stock bought and down in the basement/workshop waiting to be prepped and glued up. But have a cabinet job for a friend to start today. I've been longing for a real WW'ing bench for a very long time, as the one I am using now is just a 2x4 frame, with a sheet of 3/4" ply on top with a Record face vice. This also serves as a Miter station for the DW 12" slider. This bench does neither well, but it has worked for many years.

All this time the wife has been saying, are you going to be happy with the bench you are building, and admittedly, I said no, but it's what I can afford right now, the cost of 2x10's vesus the cost of a maple bench top. Plus all the work of cutting, 4sq all the stock, and the glue up. ARGGGGGGGG..

This Ikea deal with the premade tops is like a dream come true. Thick heavy benchtop, almost instantly. One concern I have tho is, on the top description, it says, oil and solid Beech. The oil finish on the tops has me worried about adhesion of the glue. Anyone else see any problems with this?

I think a trip to Home Depot to return the doug fir is in order as well as a trip to Ikea for 3 countertops. B) B)

Roger

[AMarshall]

LOL Onboard, I'm in Phoenix today actually.

I would have sworn that the Ikea stuff came unfinished. The ones I have used in the past (beech Numerar) seemed just like raw wood. We stained them and put some water bassed poly on for a store countertop and it behaved just like raw wood, uh, would. Check out this link for a picture of the factory "finish" vs multiple coats of Tung oil: http://www.ikeafans.com/FAQCareButcherblock.htm or here is just the picture bigger:

I don't know how PVA glue reacts to linseed oil, which is the finish Ikea is recommending and likely uses at the factory. But having seen these tops in person, I would feel comfortable just give them a light sanding before glueing. I'd use plenty of regular wood glue, and use screws to draw two of the layers together temporarily. Let them dry overnight, remove the screws and put on the third layer.

I am scheduled to build another retail display with the LAGAN in January. If anybody still cares by then I'll play around with some offcuts and test out the glue adhesion. Sounds like Roger might beat me to it though!

[Roger T]

Aaron,

Thanks for the input here. Well, I just couldn't take it and went out to Ikea today and got 3 of the 8' tops that were 1 1/8" thick. Got them home, and into the shop and unboxed. Looked into the papers that were in the box and the directions said they recommended to keep applying the finish, which Ikea sells, every day for a few weeks. And to clean up with soap and water. Smelled kind of like Tried and True Oil. And the residue that was still on the surfaces of the tops, did very slightly come off on my hands.

So I was thinking that I would probably take some 100 grit or 120 grit and sand the heck out of the mating surfaces. Wipe them down well with either DNA or Mineral Spirits and see if I get any residue on my hands. This is the same as I do with Rosewoods and Cocobolo woods when I have a glue up.

I will have to make up some 36" cauls to do the glue up. How much camber do you think I will need to get good solid pressure across the 25"? I figure a caul every foot. I only have 16 Bessey clamps. First and last caul 6" in from the ends and then every foot.

What I was really surprised at was, when I put the 3 tops on my base, they were absolutely dead flat. Checked this with a 6' Stabila Plate level. There is 60" of open between the 2 ends of the base, I really expected to see some deflection in the tops.

Any more info anyone can add? Just seems like I am missing something here. And if the glue does fail at some point in time, I think there is enough mass in the tops to not really make a difference. I could probably not even glue them and just put the aprons on and start working off of it.

Roger

[Onboard]

Aaron, thanks much for replying and giving some insight to the matter as well as encouraging words. Great information so far. We’ll see where it goes from here. Oh, and I do hope that perhaps this side track will be of some value to Godet who started this post.

LOL Onboard, I'm in Phoenix today actually.

I would have sworn that the Ikea stuff came unfinished. The ones I have used in the past (beech Numerar) seemed just like raw wood. We stained them and put some water bassed poly on for a store countertop and it behaved just like raw wood, uh, would. Check out this link for a picture of the factory "finish" vs multiple coats of Tung oil: http://www.ikeafans.com/FAQCareButcherblock.htm or here is just the picture bigger:

I don't know how PVA glue reacts to linseed oil, which is the finish Ikea is recommending and likely uses at the factory. But having seen these tops in person, I would feel comfortable just give them a light sanding before glueing. I'd use plenty of regular wood glue, and use screws to draw two of the layers together temporarily. Let them dry overnight, remove the screws and put on the third layer.

I am scheduled to build another retail display with the LAGAN in January. If anybody still cares by then I'll play around with some offcuts and test out the glue adhesion. Sounds like Roger might beat me to it though!

Roger, thanks for your bravery in going for it sight unseen. Based on what you said it sounds like there’s hope yet. This makes you a pioneer for us future bench builders. Anxious to see your final build and read about your experiences. I was wondering what a light pass with a card scraper could do to the film on the surface. Now the only thing I’m concerned about will be the possibility of Ikea getting wind of this and raising their prices. Perish the thought!

Aaron,

Thanks for the input here. Well, I just couldn't take it and went out to Ikea today and got 3 of the 8' tops that were 1 1/8" thick. Got them home, and into the shop and unboxed. Looked into the papers that were in the box and the directions said they recommended to keep applying the finish, which Ikea sells, every day for a few weeks. And to clean up with soap and water. Smelled kind of like Tried and True Oil. And the residue that was still on the surfaces of the tops, did very slightly come off on my hands.

So I was thinking that I would probably take some 100 grit or 120 grit and sand the heck out of the mating surfaces. Wipe them down well with either DNA or Mineral Spirits and see if I get any residue on my hands. This is the same as I do with Rosewoods and Cocobolo woods when I have a glue up.

I will have to make up some 36" cauls to do the glue up. How much camber do you think I will need to get good solid pressure across the 25"? I figure a caul every foot. I only have 16 Bessey clamps. First and last caul 6" in from the ends and then every foot.

What I was really surprised at was, when I put the 3 tops on my base, they were absolutely dead flat. Checked this with a 6' Stabila Plate level. There is 60" of open between the 2 ends of the base, I really expected to see some deflection in the tops.

Any more info anyone can add? Just seems like I am missing something here. And if the glue does fail at some point in time, I think there is enough mass in the tops to not really make a difference. I could probably not even glue them and just put the aprons on and start working off of it.

Roger

[AMarshall]

Go Roger! A pioneer indeed. That's very cool that the tops were that flat right out of the box. Now you just have to get them glued up without changing that. I like the caul idea too. Have you seen the Bowclamps yet? They look like they have a pretty significant camber - at least 1/4" over the 3 ft I would guess.

Keep us posted - maybe it's time to start a new thread?

[jhl.verona]

Thanks Aaron and Roger for the information. I'm thinking about a bench (of sorts) myself, and these tops came up on an Italian forum too. I sort of 'pooh poohed' the idea, because, well, I'm not very happy with buying from a pseudo tax-free 'charity'...

FYI, the products are about the same in Italy too, just slightly less wide, and of course, slightly more expensive. Betulla is birch, Faggio is beech, Rovere is Oak. NUMERÄR and LAGAN.

I may just have to put my 'moral attitude' to one side, this time...

John

[Roger T]

My apologies to Godet and everyone else that has contributed to this thread. I truly did not mean to hijack this thread. I will start another thread on my bench build. Marc, is there any way that some of the information that was posted after I jumped in can be transfered over to the new thread? Just to keep the thoughts and information cohesive.

Sorry again to all,

Roger

[Godet]

Onboard--thanks for thinking of me, but I'm reading this stuff with great interest...the questions you and roger have raised are the ones that I have had too...AND you guys are about 2-3 weeks ahead of me, so I can learn from your experience.

[Roger T]

Onboard--thanks for thinking of me, but I'm reading this stuff with great interest...the questions you and roger have raised are the ones that I have had too...AND you guys are about 2-3 weeks ahead of me, so I can learn from your experience.

I'm ok with being the guinea pig! Even if the glue does fail, I think with the mass of the 3 tops, there should be no problems. I can also install some screws if I find hollows or voids.

Roger

Who runs with knives and enjoys it.

[Onboard]

I would be very remise if I didn't give credit where credit is due, and that credit goes to "gardnesd" who posted the idea in the first place. Thanks very much gardnesd!

Looks like the "Spruce Goose" is off the ground. We'll see how she flies. By the way Roger, I stated in my last comment the possible value of using a cabinet scraper (light passes) on the tops to see if it could remove at least some of the oil "finish". I was actually thinking of a card scraper, but a cabinet scraper could be tried as well. Maybe easier on the hands.

Get two of these bad boys, laminate them together and build some legs. Weekend project.

I'm ok with being the guinea pig! Even if the glue does fail, I think with the mass of the 3 tops, there should be no problems. I can also install some screws if I find hollows or voids.

Roger

Who runs with knives and enjoys it.

[Dyami Plotke]

Aaron,

Thanks for the input here. Well, I just couldn't take it and went out to Ikea today and got 3 of the 8' tops that were 1 1/8" thick. Got them home, and into the shop and unboxed. Looked into the papers that were in the box and the directions said they recommended to keep applying the finish, which Ikea sells, every day for a few weeks. And to clean up with soap and water. Smelled kind of like Tried and True Oil. And the residue that was still on the surfaces of the tops, did very slightly come off on my hands.

So I was thinking that I would probably take some 100 grit or 120 grit and sand the heck out of the mating surfaces. Wipe them down well with either DNA or Mineral Spirits and see if I get any residue on my hands. This is the same as I do with Rosewoods and Cocobolo woods when I have a glue up.

I will have to make up some 36" cauls to do the glue up. How much camber do you think I will need to get good solid pressure across the 25"? I figure a caul every foot. I only have 16 Bessey clamps. First and last caul 6" in from the ends and then every foot.

What I was really surprised at was, when I put the 3 tops on my base, they were absolutely dead flat. Checked this with a 6' Stabila Plate level. There is 60" of open between the 2 ends of the base, I really expected to see some deflection in the tops.

Any more info anyone can add? Just seems like I am missing something here. And if the glue does fail at some point in time, I think there is enough mass in the tops to not really make a difference. I could probably not even glue them and just put the aprons on and start working off of it.

Roger

Roger, sounds like you're off to a great start with the IKEA tops. Please keep us posted as I may have to try them myself.

[Godet]

Well, with the holidays over and newly loaded with some gift cards, time, and inspiration, I picked up where I left off and actually put together a new bench. Schwarz's book was a great source of information, but I would give equal credit to the good people in this forum whose experience and advice has been a great help.

Thumbnail update:

Schwarz sold me on the merits of Southern Yellow Pine, but when I called my favorite supplier, they told me it was on on backorder. OK, backup: Douglas Fir...special order only. So, either way, I will not be able to pick through the bins and find the perfect boards and the project was going to be delayed quite a bit.. So, the guys ask me what I want with so much pine and I tell them what I'm up to. They have the solution--stained Maple, 8/4 at half price. This was first experience with "stained" Maple--it was wasn't pre-stained or stained and returned as I first thought might be the case; it was stained by black mildew during the drying process.. Once this stuff was planed down, you can hardly see the stains--there is even some nice tiger waves in places.

OK--now I have the wood for the base...I got to work gluing up the legs and started making some joints. I used by drill press with the 1.5 inch forstner bit for the bulk of the mortise, and then squared up the corners with the hollow chisel mortiser. Then, newly inspired by the Hand Tool School, I cut the tenons by hand--this was my first real experience cutting tenons by hand--thanks to Shannon for the great instruction because they fit pretty tight without much fussing around. And with 2 stretchers nearly 5 feet long, there weren't a lot of other good options for my small little shop. The tenons on the long stretchers fit a little too well...you could say...or you could say that I drove the dry fit too hard, because they were stuck. No worries, I wanted to bolt them in any way to allow myself to move it more easily, if necessary, in the future. A long drill bit, and a lot of wrench turning later...base is ready for a top...total time, including planing/sanding was only about 8 hours. I still need to insert the bottom shelf and I am thinking of retrofitting a sliding deadman....

For the top--I went with the Ikea suggestion--Roger T points out in a separate post that they do come with a light oil finish. I gave the two glued faces a good sanding with 120, which seemed to do the trick...Once I clean up the mess, I'll take a few pics. I'll still have to drill the dog holes and mount the vises...that should happen this week.

I have a twin screw for the end vise; also picked up a LV face vise, but I think I'm going to hold off on putting the face vice on and may just see how it goes with with dogs/hold fasts for edge work...can't wait to get back int the shop

[Dyami Plotke]

Well, with the holidays over and newly loaded with some gift cards, time, and inspiration, I picked up where I left off and actually put together a new bench. Schwarz's book was a great source of information, but I would give equal credit to the good people in this forum whose experience and advice has been a great help.

Thumbnail update:

Schwarz sold me on the merits of Southern Yellow Pine, but when I called my favorite supplier, they told me it was on on backorder. OK, backup: Douglas Fir...special order only. So, either way, I will not be able to pick through the bins and find the perfect boards and the project was going to be delayed quite a bit.. So, the guys ask me what I want with so much pine and I tell them what I'm up to. They have the solution--stained Maple, 8/4 at half price. This was first experience with "stained" Maple--it was wasn't pre-stained or stained and returned as I first thought might be the case; it was stained by black mildew during the drying process.. Once this stuff was planed down, you can hardly see the stains--there is even some nice tiger waves in places.

OK--now I have the wood for the base...I got to work gluing up the legs and started making some joints. I used by drill press with the 1.5 inch forstner bit for the bulk of the mortise, and then squared up the corners with the hollow chisel mortiser. Then, newly inspired by the Hand Tool School, I cut the tenons by hand--this was my first real experience cutting tenons by hand--thanks to Shannon for the great instruction because they fit pretty tight without much fussing around. And with 2 stretchers nearly 5 feet long, there weren't a lot of other good options for my small little shop. The tenons on the long stretchers fit a little too well...you could say...or you could say that I drove the dry fit too hard, because they were stuck. No worries, I wanted to bolt them in any way to allow myself to move it more easily, if necessary, in the future. A long drill bit, and a lot of wrench turning later...base is ready for a top...total time, including planing/sanding was only about 8 hours. I still need to insert the bottom shelf and I am thinking of retrofitting a sliding deadman....

For the top--I went with the Ikea suggestion--Roger T points out in a separate post that they do come with a light oil finish. I gave the two glued faces a good sanding with 120, which seemed to do the trick...Once I clean up the mess, I'll take a few pics. I'll still have to drill the dog holes and mount the vises...that should happen this week.

I have a twin screw for the end vise; also picked up a LV face vise, but I think I'm going to hold off on putting the face vice on and may just see how it goes with with dogs/hold fasts for edge work...can't wait to get back int the shop

Godet,

Soulds like you're off to a great start. I can't wait to see the finished bench.