workbench

[Godet]

So, I built my first workbench and its OK...however, I'm using more handtools and I'd really like a bench where I could store them (working in a very small shop). Also, I don't think the bench I built is going to hold up to the hand-planes. The thing is, I'm not that interested in building a bench (is that heresy?)...I just have other projects to built that are more interesting and exciting to me right now...I'm willing to spend some money for a great bench, but don't really know where to look. $500-$700, with vises, seems like a reasonable range--anybody have any suggestions? Is this way too low? Should I just suck it up and build it myself?

[ztifpatrick]

So, I built my first workbench and its OK...however, I'm using more handtools and I'd really like a bench where I could store them (working in a very small shop). Also, I don't think the bench I built is going to hold up to the hand-planes. The thing is, I'm not that interested in building a bench (is that heresy?)...I just have other projects to built that are more interesting and exciting to me right now...I'm willing to spend some money for a great bench, but don't really know where to look. $500-$700, with vises, seems like a reasonable range--anybody have any suggestions? Is this way too low? Should I just suck it up and build it myself?

I know how you feel about buying one, as I'm unhappy with mine too and there may be an easy answer to your question but I would start by strongly recomending you read Workbenches From Design & Theory to Construction & Use By Christopher Schwarz. http://www.woodworkersbookshop.com/product/workbenches/books

This is a great book about workbenches and the pit falls of so many that are for sale. Don't know if you've read any of his stuff, but he is a great writer and can keep your interest even on a subject like this. You'll be motivated to build a great bench after this.

[nikbrown]

I second the recommendation on Chris' book.

There is one issue with your budget. Almost all comercial benches are built using hardwood... and a decent bench is somewhere in the range for 110+ BF of wood.

You should look at this post:

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Need+Wood+For+A+Workbench+Woodworking+In+America.aspx

You're talking at least $500+ just for wood.

If you want to look at commercially available benches look at Sjobergs benches. Any of their stuff that is in the $300-$800 range I would find WAY too light and small for much handplane usage.

Examples: http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2005401/SJOBERGS-Nordic-Plus-Workbenches.aspx

Their Elite line is more in line what what I would consider a sturdy bench that is appropriate for hand tool usage:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2005399/SJOBERGS-Elite-25002000-Cabinetmakers-Benches.aspx

but you are talking $1500+ (before buying the storage cabinet for it)

Or there is these in the same price range (add your own storage):

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=535

Or for a little less ($1200+):

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=31152&cat=1,41637

In essence what I am saying is that if you have the $ there are benches out there... but personally I would recommend building your own. Either hardwood or a hard pine if you decide you need to do an intensive build based on Chris's book....

or look at some of the more cost effective designs using alternative materials and you can build your own cabinet in):

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/video_tour_LVL_workbench/

http://thewoodwhisperer.com/kyles-lvl-workbench/

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/18985/still-dont-have-a-workbench-this-one-is-easy (I made due with this one personally for my first 2 years of learning hand tools. It has it's limitations but it is inexpensive & quick to build and works amazingly well for what it is)

[nikbrown]

I've also heard of people taking Marc's torson box assembly table... tweaking it's dimensions and adding some work holding and dog holes to it. but you are back to a full build...

[Saddlestrum]

And for the `quick and dirty` bench you can try the Harbor Freight one for $179.00

[RenaissanceWW]

Why don't you share some pics of your bench and let's talk about why you feel it is inadequate for hand tool work. It's possible we can think of some retrofit ideas to make it a good user. Like a lot of the points above, a solid bench can be expensive mainly because they use a lot of lumber. Nothing wrong with no wanting to build your own, but I'm hesitant to tell anybody their bench won't work as there are so many work arounds possible. So show us your bench and we can talk further about it.

[Dyami Plotke]

My first suggestion would be to follow Shannon's advice & tweak your existing bench. My second choice would be to follow the Schwarz and build one. If you're still set on a store bought bench, check out the Wood River benches from woodcraft. I can't speak to their quality & once you read Schwarz's book you'll be unhappy with their design, but they are cheap.

Whichever route you take, good luck & Please share the process.

[Onboard]

The Renaissance Woodworker makes a good point. I too would like to see pictures of your current workbench.

I agree with nikbrown on the weight of the low cost commercially made benches. Great for vertical forces. Not so great for lateral forces. As previously mentioned, I would seriously think about making your own bench if pre-made benches over $700 are a financial issue. You don’t have to make it out of hardwood. Southern yellow pine is a good choice especially if you can get long leaf southern yellow pine (re-claimed wood?). If you have other woodworking friends, maybe you could double team with them to make a workbench.

The rest is just sort of a foot note to nikbrown’s post. I only include the following as a point of interest. No need to read further unless you want to. This Fine Woodworking review (members only) gave the Lie Nielsen workbench the best overall editor’s choice. They gave the Hofman & Hammer workbench the best value editor’s choice (sold by Highland Woodworking). However the H & H workbench was one of H & H’s smallest workbenches. H & H’s largest workbench, which is on par with the Lie Nielsen workbench (not saying it's as good as the LN), and is much less than the LN workbench. LN workbench is $2,500 (semi-customizable) and the H & H large workbench is $1,699. Both of these workbenches are the standard European cabinet makers style workbench. The Sjoberg, which is also in line with the Lie Nielsen, just missed the best overall cut of the FW review (the Elite 2000). It’s $2,150 with a storage cabinet built in, or $1,700 without the storage cabinet. All of these larger benches are pushing the 300 pound mark. Not likely to move much under lateral forces.

[samhell]

And for the `quick and dirty` bench you can try the Harbor Freight one for $179.00

I was going to get one of those but they are a little flimsy. I built a modified version of one out of a Woodworkers Journal project book. I think I paid under $200 for everything. Has dog holes, T track in the front and back rails, a big drawer.... super sturdy and it only took me less than a day to build. Ok 2 days but the first day was like 20 minutes - 1/2 hour to cut and glue up some 2x4s. Had to wait overnight for them to dry.

I built this, more or less (I made it a little shorter in length, only 60" or so, no end vise, and built a drawer just under the top instead of that ugly 3 drawer thing in the middle):

http://store.woodworkersjournal.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=EA777C5B76E24E90AF8D16FC432A27CA&nm=&type=Commerce&mod=GenComProductCatalog&mid=B4917A2439434EC69D686ECC2AA0136A&tier=3&id=225B44E6A02842689195F9C734ADD968&itemid=10101

I also looked at the benches Rockler sells and while sturdy, they seemed kind of small.

[wilburpan]

Why don't you share some pics of your bench and let's talk about why you feel it is inadequate for hand tool work. It's possible we can think of some retrofit ideas to make it a good user.

I agree. One strategy is to figure out a way to brace your rickety bench against something solid, and you'll have an amazingly solid bench. I did this with the first "workbench" I built, which was a poplar beam that sat on two sawhorses. A scrap of 1x4 allowed me to brace this setup against a wall, and it worked so well that my "temporary" workbench lasted me eight months.

More pictures and details here.

[Onboard]

I agree. One strategy is to figure out a way to brace your rickety bench against something solid, and you'll have an amazingly solid bench. I did this with the first "workbench" I built, which was a poplar beam that sat on two sawhorses. A scrap of 1x4 allowed me to brace this setup against a wall, and it worked so well that my "temporary" workbench lasted me eight months.

More pictures and details here.

Wilber, your workbench reminded me of a workbench that is not the typical workbench, but would be relatively inexpensive to make. If you have the Fine Woodworking Tools & Shops Annual Issue (No. 202), you can read the article there (page 74), or if you have the FW online membership, you can read it here.

[Godet]

Here is a pic...I am having some trouble getting pics uploaded..

I knew that this was going to be temporary when I built it, but also didn't realize at the time how much joy I'd find in hand tools when I got into this woodworking thing. I got the design from a book called "Hand Tools, Their Ways and Workings"...a good book on hand tool basics. I probably modified the design a bit as I was just setting up my shop at the time.

Here are the details:

Poplar top: 2 pair of 3/4" X 12" X72" boards, laminated, and bolted to the base

Base: 2X4s, bolted together; there are several 1X10 or 12s screwed to the base (width and length) for extra rigidity.

Here are the faults:

Not rigid enough for sustained hand plane usage

No vises!!!

Top is probably not thick enough...also not exactly flat.

Needs more storage

I would reduce the width to about 5' (the total shop size is about 9'X15')

I really appreciate all of the interest in this and your generosity of time...I'm already motivated to rebuild/start anew with a better a design. I'll definitely be checking out the recommend books.

Fire away!

[Dyami Plotke]

Here is a pic...I am having some trouble getting pics uploaded..

I knew that this was going to be temporary when I built it, but also didn't realize at the time how much joy I'd find in hand tools when I got into this woodworking thing. I got the design from a book called "Hand Tools, Their Ways and Workings"...a good book on hand tool basics. I probably modified the design a bit as I was just setting up my shop at the time.

Here are the details:

Poplar top: 2 pair of 3/4" X 12" X72" boards, laminated, and bolted to the base

Base: 2X4s, bolted together; there are several 1X10 or 12s screwed to the base (width and length) for extra rigidity.

Here are the faults:

Not rigid enough for sustained hand plane usage

No vises!!!

Top is probably not thick enough...also not exactly flat.

Needs more storage

I would reduce the width to about 5' (the total shop size is about 9'X15')

I really appreciate all of the interest in this and your generosity of time...I'm already motivated to rebuild/start anew with a better a design. I'll definitely be checking out the recommend books.

Fire away!

Godet,

as the top and base would both need to be addressed for good hand tool use I'd recommend starting from scratch. If hand tool use is you're only concern, you'll be very well served with Chris Schwarz's first Workbench book. If you use power tools too, I'd recommend you also check out Chris' new book and the 21st century workbench that Bob Land built. It's sweet too. Follow the Popular Woodworking editor's blog for more chat about workbenches than you could ever want.

Good luck with whichever direction you go for a new bench.

[tombuhl]

I bought a Sjoberg from Lee Valley 3-4 years ago. Price about $600 plus shipping. I think it is good value and worked to get me started on a mix of power and hand tools. The top is pretty thin and has become very un-flat and doesn't seem worth spending time flattening. Not great stability for hand planing. But the two vises are decent for what they are. Dog holes are very useful and I generally can find ways to hold long pieces and such.

I just ordered the Chris Schwarz THE WORKBENCH DESIGN BOOK. Not only is he a good writer with strong knowledge base, he has a great way of discussing issues, pros and cons, trials and tribulations. I value that approach much more than those who give their conclusions and opinions without the story of how they came to those decisions.

I also just watched the fine woodworking workbench video series with John Tetreault. Step-by-step on making a very stout bench. This is not a step-by-step we are used to getting from Marc S, but more of an overview. But enough detail to get you thinking. He doesn't get into alternatives. I believe that series is part of their subscription-based offerings. Usually on those you can at least watch the intro and at times the entire series for limited time, without being a "member."

If you're going to do much woodworking the FWW membership is good value. I'd rather go online to download a PDF of an article even though I have it in my magazine collection. Easier to find specific articles and you can print it out to takes notes and such without trashing your valuable magazine collection.

Building a bench seems like a proper part of being a woodworker, but with limited time (no matter how much one has, you might rather be building some other fabulous creations. I know I'll build a bench some day, but that is way down the list.

Good luck on your decision.

[samhell]

I dunno if you decided on what you are going to do yet but if you look through Woodcrafts latest flyer they have the Sjobergs Nordic Plus 1450 on sale for $320 I don't know if this is a good bench or not but it looks decent from the specs.

[PaulMarcel]

I agree. One strategy is to figure out a way to brace your rickety bench against something solid, and you'll have an amazingly solid bench. I did this with the first "workbench" I built, which was a poplar beam that sat on two sawhorses. A scrap of 1x4 allowed me to brace this setup against a wall, and it worked so well that my "temporary" workbench lasted me eight months.

More pictures and details here.

I have a long bench now with dog holes I use for planing and it is plenty stable, but prior to that, I'd plane on an MFT table. While plenty stable for a tracksaw and assembly, it can't handle anything when planing. Later, I make a easily-removed clamp that locks the back of the table to a partition wall. I now plane on it often and it doesn't move. Clamping your bench to the wall will do wonders. As would adding gusset plates to the front corners.

[gardnesd]

Get two of these bad boys, laminate them together and build some legs. Weekend project.

[Godet]

Get two of these bad boys, laminate them together and build some legs. Weekend project.

good idea

[Dyami Plotke]

Get two of these bad boys, laminate them together and build some legs. Weekend project.

Looks like a good deal.

[Scooter67]

So, I built my first workbench and its OK...however, I'm using more handtools and I'd really like a bench where I could store them (working in a very small shop). Also, I don't think the bench I built is going to hold up to the hand-planes. The thing is, I'm not that interested in building a bench (is that heresy?)...I just have other projects to built that are more interesting and exciting to me right now...I'm willing to spend some money for a great bench, but don't really know where to look. $500-$700, with vises, seems like a reasonable range--anybody have any suggestions? Is this way too low? Should I just suck it up and build it myself?

I do not think it is heresy. I built a couple of benches but none of them would stand up to woodworking. The are some really good benches for sale out there. I am actually thinking of buying one from Woodcrafter, Inc. These benches are right in your price range. I would like to build my bench with everything I need but one, I will spend a lot of time building it when I can use that time to do other projects for my house and kids and two, I would probably spend a lot more money building it from scratch. I have one of the Taunton books that have a lot of good ideas for benches which I would not mind building but I think in oder tohave a bench to build on while picking a design I like, I am personally going to buy one.

[Godet]

Update:

So I took the advice from multiple posters on here and read Chris Schwarz' book...twice, actually. What a wealth of information and informed opinion! I'm sold on the Roubo--looks perfect for me and not really too complicated. I also really like the idea of buying a couple of manufactured workbench tops and laminating them together. I'll then probably use SYP for the base. A couple of questions to throw out for consideration.

I think I'm going to go with the Veritas twin screw in the end vise position. It will give me the advantages of having a twin screw while also having the end vise utility. Anybody have thoughts/experience with the installation...looks like it will require serious peace of mind.

I have not picked a face vise yet...I like the Lie-Nielsen face vise, which looks nice, but probably more than I need or really want to spend. Any recommendations? Since I'll have the twin screw in the end, I think all I need is something basic to hold the wood for edge work (planning on doing the sliding deadman to help with this)

On the lamination of the pre-fab surfaces--I'm attracted to this b/c it will save maoney, allow me to have an attractive top, and avoid lots of time with the planer. My only concern: does anyone know if these are sealed/finished in a way that will complicate the glue up? Will a light sanding remedy this?

[AMarshall]

I'm little late to this party, but I am excited that I can answer at least one of your questions, Godet. Embarrassingly, it's about the Ikea countertops. They are sold entirely natural with no finish at all. They are good quality and available in multiple species - beech and birch are the ones I would consider.

As for your vise choices, you may find that you really don't need much of a face vise if you are going with a twin screw in the tail vise position. Assuming a twin screw tail vise, I would consider a simple crochet and a series of dog holes in the front edge of the top. In the dog holes, use a holdfast or even a Veritas surface vise. The sliding deadman would also be nice to support a long board for edge work.

If you are set on a "real" vise in the face position, I would recommend looking at the Benchcrafted Glide Vise. Oh my gosh, what a sexy thing that is! I saw it at Woodworking in America this year and they had to wipe the drool off my chin.

Personally, I am using a much simpler tail vise solution - the Wonder Pup. Of course, my entire bench is simplified to the point of being ridiculous. It's just a couple beams on top of a couple base cabinets. A combination of holdfasts, bench dogs, and the Wonder pup do everything I have needed so far. I literally have no vises on the bench.

In the end, there isn't one option that works for everyone. Sounds like you are in good hands with the book by Schwarz. Keep up posted on your bench build!

[Godet]

thanks, Aaron...very helpful...I'm looking at the Beech countertops. This is gong to be my big post-holiday project...I'm taking the time between now and then to gather this good info. That face vise question is basically the remaining point I'm dealing with now. One of the things I couldn't really grasp from Schwarz' book was how the crochet actually grips the work...suppose you need a a pin or hold fast underneath it?

[Dyami Plotke]

Update:

So I took the advice from multiple posters on here and read Chris Schwarz' book...twice, actually. What a wealth of information and informed opinion! I'm sold on the Roubo--looks perfect for me and not really too complicated. I also really like the idea of buying a couple of manufactured workbench tops and laminating them together. I'll then probably use SYP for the base. A couple of questions to throw out for consideration.

I think I'm going to go with the Veritas twin screw in the end vise position. It will give me the advantages of having a twin screw while also having the end vise utility. Anybody have thoughts/experience with the installation...looks like it will require serious peace of mind.

I have not picked a face vise yet...I like the Lie-Nielsen face vise, which looks nice, but probably more than I need or really want to spend. Any recommendations? Since I'll have the twin screw in the end, I think all I need is something basic to hold the wood for edge work (planning on doing the sliding deadman to help with this)

On the lamination of the pre-fab surfaces--I'm attracted to this b/c it will save maoney, allow me to have an attractive top, and avoid lots of time with the planer. My only concern: does anyone know if these are sealed/finished in a way that will complicate the glue up? Will a light sanding remedy this?

Godet,

If you're committed to putting the twin screw in the tail vise position, then I'd suggest a Jorgensen quick release vise in the face. It's not terribly expensive and it's easy to install and works good (at least according to Fine Woodworking).

Personally I plan to install my Veritas Twin Screw in the face vise position. I picked up the Veritas Quick Release Tail Vise at WIA for the tail vise position. Me bench will be more in line with Bob Lang's 21st Century Bench when I'm through with it.

Good luck with your build.

-Dyami

[Dyami Plotke]

I'm little late to this party, but I am excited that I can answer at least one of your questions, Godet. Embarrassingly, it's about the Ikea countertops. They are sold entirely natural with no finish at all. They are good quality and available in multiple species - beech and birch are the ones I would consider.

As for your vise choices, you may find that you really don't need much of a face vise if you are going with a twin screw in the tail vise position. Assuming a twin screw tail vise, I would consider a simple crochet and a series of dog holes in the front edge of the top. In the dog holes, use a holdfast or even a Veritas surface vise. The sliding deadman would also be nice to support a long board for edge work.

If you are set on a "real" vise in the face position, I would recommend looking at the Benchcrafted Glide Vise. Oh my gosh, what a sexy thing that is! I saw it at Woodworking in America this year and they had to wipe the drool off my chin.

Personally, I am using a much simpler tail vise solution - the Wonder Pup. Of course, my entire bench is simplified to the point of being ridiculous. It's just a couple beams on top of a couple base cabinets. A combination of holdfasts, bench dogs, and the Wonder pup do everything I have needed so far. I literally have no vises on the bench.

In the end, there isn't one option that works for everyone. Sounds like you are in good hands with the book by Schwarz. Keep up posted on your bench build!

Aaron,

Nice bench. I'm betting it'd make Adam King pround with it's functional minimalism. Are there drawers or doors on the other side of the base?