Question - Re: Hand plane for small/thin stock

[Bahnzo]

I make small boxes using very thin (1/8") stock. One problem that I have is cutting it to exact specs. Making a 2" by 4" box with 1/8" stock makes any variance in the cut very noticeable. So, one option I've been thinking about is using a shooting board to plane my cut pieces so they are exact both in size and straightness. Up to now I've been simply sanding pieces down, but that still leaves some error, especially when it comes to squaring it up perfectly.

My question is, what hand plane would work best for my needs? I'd be planing pretty small pieces, so it seems a full size plane might be too large for my purposes. I've only just started reading about planes, so I'm still learning. Price is also a consideration...I can't afford the best out there, but realize I might need to spend some money to achieve the results I'd like.

[AcornHouse]

I make small boxes using very thin (1/8") stock. One problem that I have is cutting it to exact specs. Making a 2" by 4" box with 1/8" stock makes any variance in the cut very noticeable. So, one option I've been thinking about is using a shooting board to plane my cut pieces so they are exact both in size and straightness. Up to now I've been simply sanding pieces down, but that still leaves some error, especially when it comes to squaring it up perfectly.

My question is, what hand plane would work best for my needs? I'd be planing pretty small pieces, so it seems a full size plane might be too large for my purposes. I've only just started reading about planes, so I'm still learning. Price is also a consideration...I can't afford the best out there, but realize I might need to spend some money to achieve the results I'd like.

If you're using a shooting board to plane the joints of small pieces I would go with a low angle block plane. It will also work well planing the small sides to final dimension, so it should be a one stop shop. (Although maybe not the best for smoothing the faces of the sides/top, if you were planning on that.)

[wilburpan]

Shannon Rogers has a video podcast on his Renaissance Woodworker site about dealing with thin stock that might be helpful.

http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/2010/09/09/rww-98-hand-tool-tips-4/

[Bahnzo]

If you're using a shooting board to plane the joints of small pieces I would go with a low angle block plane. It will also work well planing the small sides to final dimension, so it should be a one stop shop. (Although maybe not the best for smoothing the faces of the sides/top, if you were planning on that.)

Alright. I did some looking, and it seems like a 60 1/2 block plane might be what I'm looking for then. Now comes the tough part, how much can I afford? Just a quick search shows a few under the $50 range. But from reading, I understand these will need some extensive setup most likely. I certainly can't afford shelling out over $100 for one, but don't mind putting in the effort to set one up. If I do put in the effort, will a less expensive plane work well enough and stay tuned? Keep in mind I'm only going to be cleaning up 1/8" stock and not really smoothing it, just squaring the ends. If not possible, I can certainly save up and try to get one down the road some.

Maybe I'd be better off watching craigslist or making the rounds at the local flea markets?

[RenaissanceWW]

I would opt for a block plane as state above, but try to get the standard angle since you will be shooting long grain sides. You will get a cleaner cut with it. One thing to think about however since you will be using a shooting board is that a larger plane may not be overkill. The larger size adds more mass and it will glide through the cut easier. Just semantics really but thought I would throw that out there. I have read/heard and experienced some good things with the newest line of Stanelys and the new Wood River planes on the market. They are not Veritas or Lie Nielsen but not boat anchors either. Might be worth a look based on your price range.

[jHop]

I purchased the low angle Stanley from Woodcraft a few months ago. It was under $50, and handles end grain pretty well straight out of the box... er... plastic thingy. Doesn't mean a little tuning up won't help it even more. It lacks heft, but I haven't tried a shooting board yet. (Still trying to finish a pair of projects.) I haven't receibed my Lee Valley planes yet, so I have nothing to compare it to just yet.

[Dan S]

Alright. I did some looking, and it seems like a 60 1/2 block plane might be what I'm looking for then. Now comes the tough part, how much can I afford? Just a quick search shows a few under the $50 range. But from reading, I understand these will need some extensive setup most likely.

Don't pay $50.....

If someone pays $50 for a 60-1/2 they either purchased a collectors item, or got ripped off. You can get them for as low as $10 some times. Heck You can a good vintage one (the ones with a larger machined surface behind the mouth) for $25 or $30.

check these eBay listings:

400165631825 (a good vintage one)

160506628714 (a good vintage one, needs a little cleaning)

220696131726

120648447468 (needs some de-rusting, nothing bad though)

190468640892

220697678888

200544093887

clean up can be as simple or complex as you like. If you go simple, all you need is some sandpaper to flatten the sole. If you go all out, you need sandpaper, paint stripper, de-rusting agent, and paint.

[muddlermike]

you will get cheaper by buying antique block planes, but you might need to replace the iron sometimes. If you're not sure about rehabing an old plane and want to stay in budget, I would look at the Anants. They might need a little tuning, but are decent right out of the box. Their irons are thick and do hold an edge, although not as well as a hock. still a good choice for budget without going antique/rehab route.

[Bahnzo]

Thanks for all the info guys. Really, it's been a help, and I don't know why, but I totally forgot about checking ebay (although I've had some bad luck there within the last 6 months, so I've avoided it I guess).

So....I'm still unsure as to what to get. Since I'm primarily going to be planing the ends, do I want a low angle? I can also understand the idea that something larger (ie: heavier) makes sense as well since it'll use that weight to cut easier.

Block Plane, or bench plane then? And which type? I'm still a bit confused what would suit me best.

[wilburpan]

From your description of what you want this plane for, I'd go for a small smoother like a #3. Its bed will be at a standard angle (45º), so it will work well when you are planing along the grain, and for end grain you can skew the plane 30º as you push it and get the same effective angle as a low angle block plane pretty easily. You could take a low angle plane, and replace the blade as needed to get a higher bed angle, but skewing a higher angle plane to lower the effective bed angle is a lot easier for me to do.

Plus, I think it's much more comfortable pushing a small smoother plane than to do a lot of work with a block plane.

[Dan S]

Ok, what did I miss? are you talking about skewing the plane like the Super Chute does?

From your description of what you want this plane for, I'd go for a small smoother like a #3. Its bed will be at a standard angle (45º), so it will work well when you are planing along the grain, and for end grain you can skew the plane 30º as you push it and get the same effective angle as a low angle block plane pretty easily. You could take a low angle plane, and replace the blade as needed to get a higher bed angle, but skewing a higher angle plane to lower the effective bed angle is a lot easier for me to do.

[wilburpan]

Ok, what did I miss? are you talking about skewing the plane like the Super Chute does?

This is probably going to open a big can of worms, but I made a diagram once that hopefully will illustrate this. The quick answer is to rotate the plane so that its center line is making a 30º angle or so with the length of the board, and then push the plane along the length of the board. This is the top picture in the diagram, and pushing a plane this way lowers the effective bed angle.

Here's where the can of worms comes in. The Super Chute is a ramped shooting board, but it does not skew the plane in the sense of changing the effective bed angle. The board is angled relative to the plane, but the direction that the plane travels in is still perpendicular to the blade, so the bed angle stays the same.

One way to make this understandable is to imagine stretching the board on the ramped shooting board so that it matches the dotted lines in the bottom picture. This is identical to a non-skewed cut, which should show that the bed angle is the same when using a ramped shooting board.

[Bob Rozaieski]

This is probably going to open a big can of worms...

Oh Wilbur, you had to go there . Can-o-worms opened indeed. I haven't seen this diagram since the great SMC debate .

You are of course correct. A ramped shooting board does not make for a skewed or slicing cut like a skewed iron or skewing the plane to the direction of motion would. One could argue that it eases the plane into the cut since you are only starting by cutting the smallest bit of wood at the corner, but there's no slicing going on.

Your bottom illustration clearly shows that. Another way you could show it as well is to switch the rectangular board with a dowel. What that illustrates is that all the ramped shooting board does is change the direction of forward motion of the plane. But it doesn't introduce any skew or slicing motion.

I'm outta here before this gets too hot.

[Dan S]

Ok, i didn't miss anything,

So the answer is, he needs a low agle plane for end grain (what I advocate). Or he needs to make a jig of some sort to hold the plane at a skewed angle.

Here's where the can of worms comes in. The Super Chute is a ramped shooting board, but it does not skew the plane in the sense of changing the effective bed angle. The board is angled relative to the plane, but the direction that the plane travels in is still perpendicular to the blade, so the bed angle stays the same.

[wilburpan]

Oh Wilbur, you had to go there . Can-o-worms opened indeed. I haven't seen this diagram since the great SMC debate .

Slow day in clinic today.

So the answer is, he needs a low angle plane for end grain (what I advocate). Or he needs to make a jig of some sort to hold the plane at a skewed angle.

You don't need a jig to plane at a skewed angle. Just rotate the plane.

[Dan S]

You don't need a jig to plane at a skewed angle. Just rotate the plane.

He's trying to clean up the end-grain and side long-rain of 1/8" thick stock, I would think this all but requires a shooting board, and thus he can't skew the plane.

[jHop]

Lee Valley's Christmas Gift Catalog arrived yesterday. The back page has a Miniature Edge Plane, for $34.50 (catalog ordering number 05P81.01) would this be what you are looking for?

[nateswoodworks]

Back to the 60 1/2 talk, I have an old Stanley and a new one, they are not the same tool. The new one is wider, longer, much heavier, the blade is A2 steel and just a hair shy of 1/8" thick which is a big improvement, like it was said they aren't no Lie Neilsen but they are a great tool. The old ones are fine tools as well but in my opinion not on the same level as the new ones, and I am someone who loves the older tools!!

Nate

[Bahnzo]

Lee Valley's Christmas Gift Catalog arrived yesterday. The back page has a Miniature Edge Plane, for $34.50 (catalog ordering number 05P81.01) would this be what you are looking for?

I took a look at those, and they are way too small for what I want (I think)

I've pretty much decided on a 60 1/2, for what I need to do, it seems like it'll get the job done just fine. It's just a matter of finding one right now. There's always some on ebay, but I'm hoping to find something locally (craigslist) before I resort to ebay and the uncertain products that get sold there.

BTW - If anyone watches the Woodsmith Shop TV show...the latest episode was on block planes.

[Bahnzo]

Just thought I'd update....

I bought a 9 1/2 instead of a 60.5. Got a Stanley from Walt at Brass City and couldn't be happier. Needed minimal lapping and I replaced the blade with a Hock. Sharpened that sucker up and it makes some nice shavings even on end grain. Does exactly what I need it to do, so I guess I can't complain...except that I'm just gonna wind up spending more money on other stuff.

Miter box anyone?

[jon003]

One option is to simply use a regular block, but instead of chuting, simply clamp several boards in the vice at once, and just plane the grain as your normally would, with the plane your normally would use.