"High End Furniture"

[Bobby Slack]

I was visiting a friend of mine who loves mission stile furniture from a store who is pretty pricey. I looked at the legs of the table and I could see four glue lines per leg and I thought ... and they charge $ 5K for this dinner table?

That looked like there was no eye for detail. When you consider the lack of attention to these issues two things come to mind.

The buyer is uneducated

Thomas Moser is a bargain ...

[Bombarde16]

Quoth his Schwarzness: Adequate is the new premium

[harmsdph]

just goes to show you that unfortunately building a brand and giving the appearance of quality through a high price overrides quality in a lot of industries these days, not just furniture.

[dvan1901]

This is interesting because there is a woodworker that is near me that I know makes a pretty good living making tables and such. He has a booth at one of the local markets so I went and looked at some of his stuff. Now, I'm not the greatest woodworker by any stretch, but on his hall tables, which had 2"x2", maybe 1 1/2"x 1 1/2", but you could tell that he glued two pieces together to get the desired thickness..it was painfully obvious. I thought "man, why would you do that?" Anyways, he is selling these tables for a good bit of money and my initial thought was that I wouldn't even buy them because of that; it would drive me bonkers. I can't believe that it saves you any money because whatever you saved on 4/4 lumber versus 8/4 is eaten up by the fact you have to glue the pieces together, wait, and then clean them up.

[Bobby Slack]

That was a great post. Thanks

Quoth his Schwarzness: Adequate is the new premium

[Bobby Slack]

Or may be he is using his scrap?

This is interesting because there is a woodworker that is near me that I know makes a pretty good living making tables and such. He has a booth at one of the local markets so I went and looked at some of his stuff. Now, I'm not the greatest woodworker by any stretch, but on his hall tables, which had 2"x2", maybe 1 1/2"x 1 1/2", but you could tell that he glued two pieces together to get the desired thickness..it was painfully obvious. I thought "man, why would you do that?" Anyways, he is selling these tables for a good bit of money and my initial thought was that I wouldn't even buy them because of that; it would drive me bonkers. I can't believe that it saves you any money because whatever you saved on 4/4 lumber versus 8/4 is eaten up by the fact you have to glue the pieces together, wait, and then clean them up.

[dvan1901]

Bobby, I know he is not using his scrap. I have seen his site and he has pictures of going to the lumber yard and getting the wood. He also shows pictures of his leg glue ups. I know people do it this way, but I just don't get it. If you need a 2" square leg, buy 8/4, or 10/4 lumber. Ya know? Yeah, it's more expensive, but again, your client is paying for it, and it will save you at least 24 hours of glue up time. Maybe it's just me...

[Bobby Slack]

I hear what you are saying, there is a looooot of turned legs with glued up material. At least they can make a good job at matching the grain and hiding the joint a little better. Some people say that is stronger that way.

Bobby, I know he is not using his scrap. I have seen his site and he has pictures of going to the lumber yard and getting the wood. He also shows pictures of his leg glue ups. I know people do it this way, but I just don't get it. If you need a 2" square leg, buy 8/4, or 10/4 lumber. Ya know? Yeah, it's more expensive, but again, your client is paying for it, and it will save you at least 24 hours of glue up time. Maybe it's just me...

[Pete Bennett]

I hear what you are saying, there is a looooot of turned legs with glued up material. At least they can make a good job at matching the grain and hiding the joint a little better. Some people say that is stronger that way.

You guys are so right! I do make a lot of tables with 4" x 4" legs, now until a couple of years ago this was no problem but, now none of my suppliers will put Oak this thick through their kilns. I've had to succumb to glue ups. However, I make damn sure you cannot see the joints and spend hours matching grains etc. I have a competitor not far from me who seems to glue up virtually any thickness without the merest attempt to match timbers or hide his joints. He still sells and his prices are often more than mine!

Pete

[puffin]

lol, sounds like you need to raise your prices.

[Guest Trace]

I cut a bunch of red oak several years ago, mostly 5/4. But I was learning to use my bandsaw mill, and cut a bunch of it to pieces about 4X4, 6ft long while practicing. All of it was stored in the barn. My mistake was not stacking it properly. It can be used, but must have some serious planing first. Are there any people in your area that do custom sawmill work? Here there are quite a few.

[lemonjello]

Kind of a bone to pick with the "high end" thing myself. I run an small event production company and rent out furniture for lounge/bar cocktail areas, ceremonies etc. We were probably the first in our market to bring this into the weddings, has since exploded in popularity over the last 5-6 years. I build it all! I have to compromise on time/material and expected life of the pieces due to the handling and abuse they take. I would like to use better material and build nicer furniture, but when you have to crank out 32 48" long garden benches, that's 128 legs or 512 mortise/tenon joints! So i have to compromise a little.

Solid maple legs(not glue ups) 1/2 birch ply torsion box with poplar side and end caps, aniline dye and four coats or quality spayed lacquer. Plus some self designed trick joinery (which is key) and good product with a nice look and finish.

My point is other companies have been rolling out horrid China built junk as their "high end" lounge furniture. Dude! I cringe when I see it! The problem is, the clients are so used to cheap store quality as a norm, and they just don't see it.

little cheap mdf laminated tables with the tops all swollen and chipped and coming apart from all the liquid spills and water rings all over! Drives me nuts......

Sad part is, the client probably rented them for more then the company actually bought them for....

[Bobby Slack]

I think we need to be a little more realistic. We could have a tear pricing. For example, glued up perfect pieces with a perfect match which will require time, effort, passion, love ... that has one price. Then you can do an OK job at the glue up and have another price.

This is a business of TIME. Also matching pieces will create more waste.

My opinion is that I am almost ready to throw the towel for those who don't really want to pay the price ... why bother? and make great pieces for myself.

Is like we have the Home Depot type line and the Sacks Fifth Avenue line. The design is the same, the engineering is the same, the finishing is the same ...

A friend of mine was one of the major designers for Tapout and he told me that the big money comes from the cheap T-Shirts.

Sooooooo .... how to accomplish this with our passion? hmmmm. Adam King is helping me out find the answer. I better find this answer quick because my wife is running out of patience.

[Guest Trace]

The client dictates wether an object or service sells. A lot want a $1000.00 job for $10.00. My museum clients seldom have hesitated on a price I have given. I do not charge high prices for what I do for them, but I do not do the jobs for less than they are worth. Other people come with a set of plans, want the whole thing in two days, and wonder why it cannot be done. They go elswhere, then come back days or weeks later, and are usually ready to talk about the realities of cost and time. I see pieces at high end furniture stores here in the valley that are so flimsy I don't know how they survived handling to get to West Virginia fron somewhere in Asia. I have a couple of friends who are always ready to help me, and I am always ready to help them on projects which are easier to accomplish with an extra set of hands. None of us are reluctant to point out where shortcuts were used and make the parts or pieces over. I get tired of salespeople telling me how great there product is. And the person who says "I could make that for a lot less", or "My (insert relative) can do that for me for less". I tell them "Well, thats the place to go". I could suggest somewhere, but I hold my tongue.

[Bobby Slack]

Brilliant " I get tired of salespeople telling me how great there product is. And the person who says "I could make that for a lot less", or "My (insert relative) can do that for me for less". I tell them "Well, thats the place to go".

The client dictates wether an object or service sells. A lot want a $1000.00 job for $10.00. My museum clients seldom have hesitated on a price I have given. I do not charge high prices for what I do for them, but I do not do the jobs for less than they are worth. Other people come with a set of plans, want the whole thing in two days, and wonder why it cannot be done. They go elswhere, then come back days or weeks later, and are usually ready to talk about the realities of cost and time. I see pieces at high end furniture stores here in the valley that are so flimsy I don't know how they survived handling to get to West Virginia fron somewhere in Asia. I have a couple of friends who are always ready to help me, and I am always ready to help them on projects which are easier to accomplish with an extra set of hands. None of us are reluctant to point out where shortcuts were used and make the parts or pieces over. I get tired of salespeople telling me how great there product is. And the person who says "I could make that for a lot less", or "My (insert relative) can do that for me for less". I tell them "Well, thats the place to go". I could suggest somewhere, but I hold my tongue.