Mini Shop Tour/Request for Help


Pwk5017

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As the thread title suggests, this will be part shop tour and mostly a request for organizing around the last piece to this shop--a slider. Ive wanted a true european slider ever since i had a jessem mast r slide on my delta contractor saw. It wasnt dead nuts accurate, but it transformed the table saw into a wonderful tool to use. I could only ever imagine what it would be like to have a properly designed slider one day. I wrote off those dreams for awhile due to budget and space constraints. Here I am 4 years later and suddenly it doesnt seem like that distant of a dream. In fact, the only thing stopping me are the right used machine and space in my basement. In comes the min shop tour so you know what im dealing with. I am in the basement of a small ranch, that my wife and i gutted and remodeled 5 years ago. This explains why the joists and subfloor are exposed with a crap tile floor. After 9 months of working weeknights and weekends, we moved in and postponed finishing the basement. Thus, my fledgling shop space was born. Everything was earned through some form of shop venture over the last 4 years; either flipping other woodworking machines or taking on commissions for people. This also means things grew organically without rhyme or reason. It isnt laid out as effectively as i would have done if i had a clean slate now, but I will live and learn for the next one. I think the most productive take aways from shop tours are the "i would have done this/that differently...", so feel free to ask or critique the location of things. The space felt a lot different when it was a 6" jointer with a dewalt jobsite table saw, thats for sure.

 

If i do this right, the images should start at the entrance to the basement from the garage and progress around the L-shape space in a clockwise manner. There is also a sketchup model with dimensions to help make sense of things. 

 

 

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First of all I can't help but comment that your shop seems to be a bit of a mess heh. I totally understand since my shop gets that way at the end of pretty much every project I do. I have never had the balls to post pictures of it when its in that state though ;P

Anyway, the first thing that sprang to mind is that your anti-fatigue mats need better placement since right now they just look like a trip hazard. The next thing that I noted is that a lot of your machines are in the middle of your floor space. Things like your jointer I feel could be better served going against one wall.

If you swapped your festool assembly table thing (can never remember the name) for where the kapex is you would have more room on either side of the kapex to cut stuff which would probably be an easy improvement.

Those are the things I can see right now. Otherwise looks like a nice shop!

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Alright, thats it for the groundwork. For fitting the new machine in, i have my eye on a Felder KF700 saw/shaper combo or the minimax/scmi equivalent. Safe to assume the router table, MFT3, and kapex can all go away after the acquisition to free up space and money. Option 1 nests the machine with my laguna and should work depending on the outrigger length/rip width. Im limited to 11.5' of width in this throat, which is tricky. It would cost me my main lumber rack, kapex and mft. Im also slightly concerned with the rip capacity being severely compromised by the bandsaw. At around 15-18" of rip width, im going to hit the blade of the bandsaw it looks like. The pros are it has enough stroke length for a 8'+ table, i have a 30-40amp line run for my bandsaw right there, and DC shouldnt be too arduous to extend to this point. 

 

Option 2 moves the 20" planer to the MFT location and places the slider on that part of the shop. I get to keep my main steel rack and i really like how my jointer and planer nest better in this orientation. It is a natural progression to finish jointing and stack the boards on sawhorses next to the planer 8' away. As it stands today, i move material around wayyyyyy too much. The cons are i need a 5-7' table length fit between those two support columns, and extending power/DC to the two machines is slightly more challenging/involved. The planer would be challenged on infeed/outfeed space too. Looks like 80"+/- at the moment. It is on casters and could be scooted to improve this when necessary, i think. It isnt uncommon to do 8-12' islands and bars, so this is semi important. Finally, i trap my assembly table behind machines. This causes future Patrick some problems when he needs to move big pieces(3-5' by 8-10') from that area. 

 

All in all, i think both options have issues. I want to add that we should be moving to a larger house in the area if my new job goes as planned this year. It shouldnt be a setup im living with for years and years, but thats not a reason to do something stupid. Of course, 'if it aint broke, dont fix it' could apply here and i wont get the machine, but as everyone knows, when you want something.... I want a shaper and slider for the next place, because the first year or two will be spent on built ins, cabinets, vanities etc. Originally i was going to wait till i got to the new place and buy a machine, but if you know anything about the used slider market, these machines are a very rare bird. Single phase, saw/shaper combos in good shape do not come around often. I would prefer to spend the next year looking for the right machine at the right price and then have to deal with moving the whole shop, versus putting off the search and then waiting months and months for a machine to pop up. Heck, it might be a year until one presents itself. 

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15 minutes ago, minorhero said:

First of all I can't help but comment that your shop seems to be a bit of a mess heh. I totally understand since my shop gets that way at the end of pretty much every project I do. I have never had the balls to post pictures of it when its in that state though ;P

Anyway, the first thing that sprang to mind is that your anti-fatigue mats need better placement since right now they just look like a trip hazard. The next thing that I noted is that a lot of your machines are in the middle of your floor space. Things like your jointer I feel could be better served going against one wall.

If you swapped your festool assembly table thing (can never remember the name) for where the kapex is you would have more room on either side of the kapex to cut stuff which would probably be an easy improvement.

Those are the things I can see right now. Otherwise looks like a nice shop!

hahahaha I spent a few minutes mulling over "should i tidy up or no?", but said F it in the end. My space is very rarely clean. I organize it once or twice a year, but as you see it is how it is 90% of the time. 

They were pieced together as a puzzle a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately, i was gluing up a massive sapele island on the ground and i had a spazzed out rage moment when the mats interfered with the glueup. The resulting chaos hasnt been fixed yet. 

Believe it or not, i really dont use the kapex all that much. It has 12-14' of cutting length to the right of the blade and maybe 50" to the left of the blade. Unless i buy an omga or something heavy in the future, i dont think i need a fine miter saw. The dewalt lives in the garage and breaks down most of my lumber to length. I expect the slider to make any miter saw obsolete. 

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12 hours ago, Eric. said:

Good shop dude.

I question some of your tool placement decisions but it looks like you got the space to afford a little less-than-ideal organization.

Solid tools.

Yeah, Ive wanted to post it for a few months as a learning tool. The unfortunate aspect of shop layouts is its kinda one and done. Right now for me to move things around a lot would be expensive and a PITA--Duct work, electric runs etc. Maybe not prohibitively, but do i really want to spend a weekend and $400 to rework ducts and run new lines? Not really. 7" spiral and 8-10awg add up pretty quick.

 

Maybe there are quintessential rules for laying out a shop correctly, but i never found them. All i ever read about are "everyone's space is unique". That is semi true, but at the end of the day, we are dealing with rectangles of different configurations, not snowflakes. 

 

Things i would do differently:

  • jointer against a wall makes the most sense. I think i placed mine here to get it away from the cyclone and have 11-12' clear from wall to lumber rack. Still, i hate its location and know a solution against the wall with the same infeed/outfeed space could work
  • not nesting the planer and jointer. These two tools make the most sense to be next to each other. Either back to back or another configuration. This is a situation where having a jointer off the wall makes sense IF a planer is butting up against it. Think the Martin or Makita Jointer/Planer combo. I failed in this regard. 
  • Integrating the table saw and router table better. Like the jointer and planer, these tools operate in a similar plane and make sense to put side to side. I acquired my router table after most things were in place, so it went where it could fit and there was DC. 
  • Put the cyclone/collector closer to the egress point. Right now it is just about as far away as possible, and wheeling the bin around tools and projects to empty it outside is incredibly annoying. 
  • I wish i gave more consideration to mobile bases at the time. Currently, my LT20 is the only tool on a mobile base. The PM209 has casters, but i wouldnt consider it highly mobile. They arent designed particularly well. In my case i work with a lot longer lengths than most hobbiests, which handcuffed my layout thought process. In the case of the bandsaw, it limits my jointer oufeed to 7-8', but after i wheel it out 2-3 feet, i can joint up to 11-12'. 

 

I roughly marked up why everything is clustered in the middle of the room. The red path is the main entrance in and out of the house. The garage and driveway are through the door by the kapex and lumber rack, and my wife and i use it 99% of the time we enter or exit the house. Next, i have very low heights in the yellow highlighted area because of HVAC ductwork. Im maybe at 6'-2" clear in that area. In addition, the Ibeam above the drum sander and planer blocks me from running my ductwork inbetween the joists. It is also at a low clear height. These obstructions prevent me from practically running dust collection over there. The main ceiling height limits me from moving the bandsaw just about anywhere. It clears the joist by 1/2" in that zone, because the floor dips there slightly. I cant make this stuff up. Despite having close to 700 sqft, i feel like i would be better served with a 500sqft two car garage without columns or low ceilings. 

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13 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

Yeah, Ive wanted to post it for a few months as a learning tool. The unfortunate aspect of shop layouts is its kinda one and done. Right now for me to move things around a lot would be expensive and a PITA--Duct work, electric runs etc. Maybe not prohibitively, but do i really want to spend a weekend and $400 to rework ducts and run new lines? Not really. 7" spiral and 8-10awg add up pretty quick.

 

Maybe there are quintessential rules for laying out a shop correctly, but i never found them. All i ever read about are "everyone's space is unique". That is semi true, but at the end of the day, we are dealing with rectangles of different configurations, not snowflakes.

 

 

Like I said, you got space.  You can get away with not maximizing every inch.  I have everything packed into a two car garage so I've moved things around a dozen times or more over the years.  Every decision required a great amount of thought and I've lost months of my life to trial and error tool placement (and re-routing DC).  If I didn't go through that process I wouldn't be able to move in my shop.

Even if the tool layout isn't ideal, basic organization can make an enormous difference.  Some people are organizational types and some aren't.  I guarantee if I had your identical situation there would be a boatload more usable space because every last thing would be tucked away nice and tidy.  I loaded trailers for a few years in college and that really honed my instinct for spacial orientation and it's a skill that came in handy.

I do better work in a clean, organized shop.  But true artists are usually a mess.

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Well, i am certainly not a true artist. Im just a guy that woodworks a lot on the weekends and evenings for others and doesnt clean up after himself. My biggest "clutter" problem is leftover lumber. I have shorts and cutoffs EVERYWHERE. The worst part is i cant throw any of it away, because invariably i get someone that wants a cutting board or something else and i use scrap wood to make $100. The mahogany and bubinga near the bandsaw has to go though. I doubt i will ever use that stuff in the next year, and clutter attracts more clutter. 

 

Questions for the better shop organizers among us. What tools would you rearrange if you had carte blanche? As i previously stated, i posted my setup for other people to learn from in future forum searches, but now everyone has me thinking if i should rearrange things for my own benefit. My wife might murder me if i ask her to help move ductwork, but the improved layout could be worth the risk.  

 

Also, we havent discussed it, but where is everyone on the slider/saw? I may be mid negotiation on a machine, and i dont want to pull the trigger if im being blinded by my own tool lust. 

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I can only speak for my own workflow in my own shop, but there are a couple logical "clusters."

The jointer, planer and drum sander should all be in one area for the obvious reason.  The milling area can almost be its own separate entity off in some lonesome wing of the shop because once that part of the project is done, it's done.  There's not a whole lot of back-and-forth except during the milling process...which is why they should be clustered.

The primary cluster in my shop is the workbench, table saw and assembly table.  That's where 90% of my time is spent throughout a project.  In a perfect world I would have these three set up in some kind of triangulation where each is only a few steps away from another.  Unfortunately my assembly table does double duty as outfeed table so there's a little extra walking and parts are often in my way.  But my workbench opposes my table saw, so I can go back and forth between the two with only a few steps.  The bandsaws are also nearby.

Most of the rest of the tools can go pretty much anywhere since they're less frequently used.  There would be a good argument to have the miter saw near the table saw if you use it to make your final length cuts...but if you use the miter saw more for breaking down rough material I would consider putting it closer to the milling area.  My miter saw is closer to the table saw than the milling area, but I break down my rough material with jigsaw and bandsaw.  The miter saw generally doesn't get used until after milling.

These decisions are luxuries you have with a big shop.  My layout kind of naturally evolved into clusters, but part if is was just luck because it happened to be where they best fit.  Way fewer options in a smaller shop means that you can't always cluster in an ideal way.  On the flip side...there's never that much walking to do in a tiny shop. :)

Sliders are awesome but I don't personally see the need for one if you're the kind of woodworker that I am...doing mostly medium sized one-off furniture pieces.  If I were running a small cabinet shop or batching out anything that required a ton of crosscutting, it might be more of a consideration.  Also I simply don't have the space for one, and opted to go the MFT and crosscut sled route for all of my crosscutting needs...and the pair does a fine job.  I see sliders as being much more useful in a production setting.

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  • 2 months later...

hi new member here, saw your pics and wanted to offer my suggestions from personal experience. i have a basement/garage workshop(bilevel style home) and the number one thing i can suggest is soundproofing. you have open joist bays which will make it easier to add sound deadening/insulation. no matter how enthusiastic your wife is about woodworking she will eventually get tired of the constant noise. also iwould frame out your cinder block walls and add foam to insulate. before you place any workstations do the walls and ceilings with drywall or paneling. good luck in your new shop!    Lou

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You know what is wild, you would think the noise would be unbearable in the living quarters, but it really isnt bad. I started a thread about a year ago with concerns about a puppy and noise. I had myself pretty worked up that i was going to make the future pup go deaf. As a test, i made my wife go downstairs and feed a board through the planer with the dust collector on. It was shockingly quiet in the living room. Dont get me wrong, you could hear the tools, but it was as noisy as running an oscillating fan or something similar. Funny part of the story is i heard her complete a pass and expected the tools to shut down, but i kept hearing her take more passes. I was worried something had happened so i ran downstairs and she looked up and said, "this is a lot of fun!". 

 

Conveniently, she is rarely home when i woodwork. I dont work much on the weeknights now that we have the dogs, and she works saturdays. Really, sunday is the only day she has to put up with me using tools. It cant be too bothersome, because i come upstairs to her and the dogs sleeping on the couch most sunday afternoons. 

 

I would be curious to hear the impact difference by installing a ceiling or some form of foam soundproofing. If the noise pollution isnt bad now, im sure it would be almost nonexistent with additional work. All ive done is weatherstrip and add a rubber shoe to the interior door leading to the basement. 

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