rick@whydoit.com Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hey folks - I have been working on some corner tables originally on Wood Works, but what started as a prototype in poplar was decided by my wife to be used. I only explain so I'm not scolded for "why I did it this way". The table will have an inlay of maple. As mentioned, the table is poplar. I have defined the stain recipe to be Georgian Cherry and Java gel stains from GF. I need to protect the inlay from the stain. I had planned to do this like Norm on a set of nested tables - carefully paint on a coat of shellac on the maple inlay, then stain the piece. However, watching the episode closely, I noticed that some stain bled into the maple under the shellac, I assume by sneaking in the side through the wood grain. Or he didn't get his inlay covered well. So here's the question: Is my assumption(s) correct, and if so, can I protect it by painting the shellac on the side of the inlay but not all the way down the side. I wondered if I could get JUST below the surface of the table top but not down to the bottom of the sides of the inlay channel so I still had glue surface. I know - use a darker wood with the maple so I don't have the problem. But the finish is still something I want to do because I eventually want to do the mahogany and maple as Norm did. Thoughts? Thanks much, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcornHouse Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 One approach may be to stain the poplar before inlaying the maple. Seal the stained poplar with shellac an THEN inlay the maple. Just be careful when you flush it with the poplar not to sand into the stain. The shellac will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick@whydoit.com Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 One approach may be to stain the poplar before inlaying the maple. Thanks. This was my first thought, but really didn't think I could flush it without marring the stain. I have a couple of the test finish boards, I can try on those. I hadn't thought of sealing the stain with shellac, though I'd planned on sealing the poplar pre-stain for blotch. That part is interesting. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcornHouse Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Thanks. This was my first thought, but really didn't think I could flush it without marring the stain. I have a couple of the test finish boards, I can try on those. I hadn't thought of sealing the stain with shellac, though I'd planned on sealing the poplar pre-stain for blotch. That part is interesting. Thanks again Ideally, if you can sand off JUST the shellac when flushing it up, that would give a perfectly flat surface over both inlay and base. Good luck. (Definitely NO power sanders. lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Ideally, if you can sand off JUST the shellac when flushing it up, that would give a perfectly flat surface over both inlay and base. Good luck. (Definitely NO power sanders. lol) This is more of a question than a suggestion. Would a card scraper work better than sandpaper for that operation? In other words, would it be easier with a card scraper than with sandpaper to stop at exactly the point where the shellac had just barely disappeared? -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick@whydoit.com Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 This is more of a question than a suggestion. Would a card scraper work better than sandpaper for that operation? In other words, would it be easier with a card scraper than with sandpaper to stop at exactly the point where the shellac had just barely disappeared? -- Russ I was planning to take the bulk down with a scraper, but then wondered if I'd need to switch to one of those thin, detail sanding tools and follow just the inlay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Ideally, if you can sand off JUST the shellac when flushing it up, that would give a perfectly flat surface over both inlay and base. Would it be safer to lightly sand, then put on a later of shellac, then lightly sand, then put on a layer of shellac, etc? I'm thinking that you're less likely to go through the shellac if you keep replacing it, and eventually you'll end up with a level surface. --- Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Bennett Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Would it be safer to lightly sand, then put on a later of shellac, then lightly sand, then put on a layer of shellac, etc? I'm thinking that you're less likely to go through the shellac if you keep replacing it, and eventually you'll end up with a level surface. --- Chip That's definitely the way I would go when French Polishing any work that has strong contrasting timbers or Stain. You'd be amazed how easy it is to get Ebony dust into Sycamore and not ever be able to remove it entirely. I usually try to give every piece a good sanding before assembly. Then slowly build the layers and flat off gently usually after several layers I'll switch to rotten stone as the abrasive it's less aggressive and easier to control. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick@whydoit.com Posted February 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Acorn, Chip, WS, and Russ - thanks for all this help. Is this sequence correct? 1 lb seal coat for blotchApply stain recipeApply dewaxed shellac as stain sealer (2 lb? 1 lb?)Glue and flush inlay, touch-up shellac as neededApply top-coat(s)Accept praise from grateful wife Pretend I actually can do this stuff! Oh - last question (I think) - Since I'm applying the stain to the whole project, do I also need to shellac/seal the stain on the base, so that all top coats come out right? May be a "newbie" question, but want to be sure I don't miss something. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcornHouse Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Is this sequence correct? 1 lb seal coat for blotchApply stain recipeApply dewaxed shellac as stain sealer (2 lb? 1 lb?)Glue and flush inlay, touch-up shellac as neededApply top-coat(s)Accept praise from grateful wife Pretend I actually can do this stuff! Oh - last question (I think) - Since I'm applying the stain to the whole project, do I also need to shellac/seal the stain on the base, so that all top coats come out right? May be a "newbie" question, but want to be sure I don't miss something. Thanks again Your sequence is off by one number. #1 Pretend you can actually do this stuff... Be confident, you CAN do this stuff! use a 1lb cut of shellac, 2 thin coats to be safe (multiple thin is almost always better than one thick in any type of finishing.) Yes, it would be a good idea to apply the shellac sealer over every surface to seal in the stain. Even with blonde shellac, it has a little color, albeit a very light one. So that will keep the color consistent. Make sure to sand it just like the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick@whydoit.com Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Your sequence is off by one number. #1 Pretend you can actually do this stuff... Be confident, you CAN do this stuff! use a 1lb cut of shellac, 2 thin coats to be safe (multiple thin is almost always better than one thick in any type of finishing.) Yes, it would be a good idea to apply the shellac sealer over every surface to seal in the stain. Even with blonde shellac, it has a little color, albeit a very light one. So that will keep the color consistent. Make sure to sand it just like the top. Thanks, Acorn. I'll plan on agreeing with you after it's done! ;-) Inlay is cut, ready to be sized to fit the channel. Assuming I needed to cover that channel before applying seal/stain/seal, I was going to cut some sacrificial MDF to protect the channel. Then in a dry fit, one of them split pulling it out - not a super tight fit. So if I just use blue tape, think that will do the trick? I don't want to be digging out fragments of MDF and slip, should any of the finish "glue" it in place. My thought was to create a solid barrier that wouldn't fold and allow finish to get in. I'll be applying shellac with a "bob". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'd use blue tape to protect the glue surfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick@whydoit.com Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Well, here's where I went with it: Tried the stain, glue inlay, flush. But couldn't get it without marring the stain without REALLY taking forever. On Marc's advice, I used 1/8" masking tape (from hobby store) to cover the inlay. Learned a few things about this along the way. But since I'm using gel stains, this turned out to be the best approach. I have the first coat of Arm-R-Seal on the tops - they're coming together nicely, for a prototype that I never expected to take this far Got a couple touch up tasks on the smaller base, but I'm on the way! Here is the set just before finish went on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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