outofstepper Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Greets all. I use a standard honing guide that clamps onto my irons. Recently picked up a 50* iron for my smoother -- its come time to hone it and it turns out I can't hone past, maybe, 45* using a traditional guide. Before I reinvent the wheel, anyone have any tricks up their sleeves? I thought about a simple spacer block under the wheel.. but that sort of defeats the purpose of the wheel and I don't really like the idea of dragging wood/metal spacer across the stone. I suppose I could make a plastic spacer? Thoughts? -Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcornHouse Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think it may be time to get just a little bit MORE Neanderthal. The simplest solution, is to hone without a guide. It will increase your skillset and its really not that hard to do. When you place the iron on the stone, place it heel first and move it down until the tip contacts. There is enough meat there that you should be able to hold it flat on the bevel, putting your fingers down close to the edge. Then, keeping pressure closest to the tip, draw back. Try it! You'll find its the quickest way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outofstepper Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 somehow my reply got lost in space.. here's the short version (probably for the best anyway) I'm comfortable freehanding the primary bevel on my irons, especially since they're so thick (stock irons from veritas). but i'm working on the microbevel here and I fear rolling it over. I think I can file some material off the shoulders of my guide. Looks like there's only about a 1/16" in the way. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmykx250 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 It must be just me but i have tried the freehand approach with awfull results. I find the contact area on my chisels to be to small to slide around on the stone without tipping one way or the other? My norton waterstone set I bought from peachtree came with a vid and I watched it to and still no way i can do it- not consistantly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlingenfelter Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Maybe I'm missing something here. Are you using a "standard" bench plane, bevel down that is? If so, you don't need to put a 50 degree angle on your blade. The angle of your Frog is what determines your Effective Pitch/Angle. If you are using a bevel up plane, the bedding angle is generally between 12 and 20 degrees. So, 50 degrees plus 20 degrees is an Effective pitch 70 degrees. Do you really need that high of and angel. If you are using bevel down planes, you can use a back bevel to increase you Effective Pitch, if needed. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outofstepper Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Sorry, yes, this is a bevel up plane.. the veritas smoother. On some recommendations I ordered the 50* iron along with the plane (which came with a 25* installed). Veritas does this quirky thing where they measure the angle based on the microbevel. Meaning a 50* iron has, i dunno, something like a 48* primary bevel, and a 50* microbevel. As to whether I need that or not, that's a good question. I'm still in baby steps. Had a piece of rough saw cherry with some really bad grain switchback / knots / who knows what.. and it was tearing out with the jointer. I tried to clean it up with the smoother and got about the same results. Put the 50* iron in the smoother and things started looking a lot better. -Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlingenfelter Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think the Veritas bevel up planes have a 12 degree bed. That would give you about a 62 degree Efective Pitch. You would include the angle of the micro-bevel in this calculation. I've known people to go all the way up to 60, but I've never needed to go over 50 myself. Something to remember, the higher the angle the "harder" it is to push. Also the higher the angle, the blade dulls more quickly. I've never tested this dulling statement, but I've heard it from a few people. I only go to a high angle if needed. If you are getting good results at a lower angle, it's easier to maintain and use. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattvan Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Greets all. I use a standard honing guide that clamps onto my irons. Recently picked up a 50* iron for my smoother -- its come time to hone it and it turns out I can't hone past, maybe, 45* using a traditional guide. Before I reinvent the wheel, anyone have any tricks up their sleeves? I thought about a simple spacer block under the wheel.. but that sort of defeats the purpose of the wheel and I don't really like the idea of dragging wood/metal spacer across the stone. I suppose I could make a plastic spacer? Thoughts? -Tony Hey Tony, I first thought about your idea of using a spacer block also, but I agree I might feel a little funny running it back and forth along my stone's face. Although, wood on the stone would wear far less than the blade being sharpened. Still, it might be difficult to hold and get accurate results. Have you considered clamping the blade in a guide block of some sort and running the stone over the edge vs the blade over the stone? Just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about, Blum Tools has a sharpening jig that does just that. http://www.blumtool.com/pages/sharpeningjig.html I saw this in action at WIA 2009 and it makes perfect sense. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outofstepper Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Hey MattV, Interesting idea, running the stone over the blade like that. Looks like it might get messy with water stones though. In the end I just modified the honing guide. See pictures below. Sure, pictures are gratuitous -- but who doesn't like pictures? Mike, I'm not sure about that dulling thing. Maybe. Seems a little counterintuitive as a higher angle should leave more material behind the cutting edge to support it. It is definitely harder to push, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattvan Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Harder to Push is right, but the result is worth it! I like your fix to the jig, I'm so stealing that lol!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outofstepper Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Matt, don't you sleep? To keep beat'n this horse, I've got one last question.. since' we're talking honing guide. I've always wondered why one side of the guide is rounded.. anyone know? Best I can tell the guide is perfectly symmetric.. so angles are the same no matter which way you put the chisel/blade in. I certainly don't think its to make it look better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattvan Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Sleep??? I always thought the honing guide was rounded to protect soft delicate hands like mine while in use lol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateswoodworks Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 One other idea if you want ease of repeatablity is to simply make a jig that is like this. I used a setup like this for quite a long time until I bought my Veritas MK11. If you make it so the bridge that you attach the iron too is locked in to the angle you want setup is a snap. I made a few different ones for the bevel angles I wanted. Just a thought. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outofstepper Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Nate, Thats slick.. looks easy enough to put together too. The fact that its not riding on the stone itself though means not only does my stone have to be flat, but its got to parallel too. I'll mull that over a bit more, but it might just do the trick for spokeshave irons (that have no chance in heck in my honing guide). About a year ago I built myself one of these things: Should've done it 10 years sooner. Can set any angle / tilt / twist / etc. I have a V-block that clamps on I can do my gouges with. I have some cold running diamond belts that make cutting primary bevels a breeze. I tried the secondaries (the microbevels) and, although they're sharp, I don't think they're as sharp as off the water stone. They do make leather strops in continuous belts.. maybe that and some honing compound might work best for me. All my irons are A2, to make matters worse. -Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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