Rabbet vs Shoulder?

[outofstepper]

Greets all.

Am in the market for a shoulder plane -- rather, for a plane to do some clean up

on tenons / etc. I'm leaning towards the lee valley / veritas medium shoulder:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=48430&cat=1,41182,48945

But I got to wondering, would this wooden rabbet plane do the same thing?

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=46324&cat=1,41182,41192&ap=1

There's quite a difference in cost.

Thanks,

-Tony

[rmac]

I don't know which of those Lee Valley planes would suit you better. But, if you're in a hurry (you want to trim those tenons NOW) or if you want to save the bucks, you can try this in the meantime for free:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/40435

-- Russ

[jwatson]

The biggest difference is solely the angle of which the iron is bedded. I don't see how that would be better or worse to use one or the other. I want to make a wooden rebate plane eventually for doing the same type of work. I want to make one just because I think it will be fun.

[Jonathryn]

The difference is the angle of the iron. The medium shoulder plane has a lower angle and if you're trimming up tenons, you'll want it because the low angle is good for end grain.

If you're just rabbeting sides, *with the grain*, for knock-together boxes or something, the rabbet plane (or like an old 78) is good.

[Bob Rozaieski]

Greets all.

Am in the market for a shoulder plane -- rather, for a plane to do some clean up

on tenons / etc. I'm leaning towards the lee valley / veritas medium shoulder:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=48430&cat=1,41182,48945

But I got to wondering, would this wooden rabbet plane do the same thing?

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=46324&cat=1,41182,41192&ap=1

There's quite a difference in cost.

Thanks,

-Tony

Not going to be a huge difference. The metal shoulder plane is bedded lower, but is bevel up, so the effective angle with a 25 degree bevel on the iron is probably around 40 degrees. The wooden rabbet plane is bedded at 45 degrees but is bevel down, so the cutting angle is 45 degrees regardless of the bevel angle. Going across the grain such as you will with a tenon cheek, both will do a fine job. For tenon shoulders, the shoulder plane with its slightly lower angle may give you a slightly easier cut, but at 5 degrees difference, there isn't going to be a huge difference if both irons are very sharp (like they need to be for end grain anyway). So the simple answer is yes, both will do the job fine. But so will a chisel. In fact, I prefer a chisel for this job because I can control where I am removing material better with a chisel vs. a plane, and, I can undercut the shoulders of the tenon slightly to make sure the outside of the tenon shoulder closes tightly. You can't undercut with a plane. Everything has to be perfect, which it rarely is. A 1-1/2" to 2" wide chisel is perfect for this task.

[jhl.verona]

These observations based on reading material - I own neither plane, and have no experience using them.

I'm quite surprised by this discussion. I thought the difference was that the rebate/rabbet plane cuts away material quickly, and the shoulder plane finely. Similar to the relationship between a Jack plane and smoother. Rebate/rabbet planes usually have a spur or nicker for cross grain work.

I imagine you could use a shoulder to produce a long grain rebate/rabbet. Slowly. Don't know how that would work cross grain, unless you scored the shoulder line first with a marking knife or chisel.

I imagine you could use a rebate/rabbet to trim a cheek, and possibly a shoulder, but not with much precision, because it has a much bigger mouth.

Thanks, Bob, I'll use my 50mm cabinet chisel - though the beast scares the daylights out of me. Feels like a Bowie knife. A chisel is what you'd use to register the faces of the mortise if you drilled out first anyway, isn't it?

In any case, a sharp chisel certainly beats using a rasp, file or sandpaper, which was my previous method (usually unsuccessful) to register a surface.

John

[lwllms]

Tony,

A shoulder plane is a low angle plane intended for end grain. Its advantage is that with a very sharp iron and light cuts one can make fine adjustments to the visible joint with minimal risk of blowing out the grain on the visible edges of the piece. For trimming a tenon to size a common pitch plane or steeper is better for fitting the faces or cheeks of a tenon across the grain. The low angle shoulder plane will tend to catch and lift the grain when fitting tenon cheeks.

I agree with Bob in that a nice paring chisel of an appropriate size offers better control for sizing tenon cheeks. Floats work pretty well too.