Advice on an "oopsie!"

[daneger]

Alright, folks... I've made a mistake. All you perfect woodworkers can start hurling insults or rocks. The rest have to give advice, right?

In Denver, we're getting near the end of working-in-the-garage season. It snowed ~10" today, for example. I've been teaching my friend a bit of woodworking this year, as he wanted my help to build a large rustic slab-style dining table. (Nice easy first woodworking project for a guy who doesn't have much spatial sense or patience, wouldn't you say?) Since I'm such a sucker, I jumped in with both feet. Wood (Lenga) was purchased in April, and we're still fitting joinery in October...

To make a long story short, I'm in a hurry. And it made me dumb for a few minutes around 8:30pm Sunday evening. We test fit the apron mortise-and-tenon joints, and I suggested we just glue the short sides up. Perfect fit, nice and square! On Monday morning when I removed the clamps before heading to work, I noticed that we hadn't prepped the apron surfaces. Yep, pretty decent but not finished. The bottom still has slight saw marks from the Woodworker II (not handplaned). The faces still have a hint of planer (partly handplaned) and the corners are wicked shred-yer-knees-and-knuckles sharp.

We intended on putting a 1/8" roundover on those bottom corners (legs already have been rounded over & mostly surfaced). Any advice on how to do that? Also, I can't get a plane on the important faces of the rail anymore; what should I do? I'm expecting a lot of hand sanding, but hoping there is a smarter way to remove milling marks... Also, how should I protect the leg surfaces if I go at the roundover with a rasp? Like I said, ski season is here and the next woodworking season is many moons away.

Thanks in advance!

Dane

[CessnaPilotBarry]

Plane as much as you can, finishing the unreachable areas with a card scraper.

Use a router or plane to do the 1/8" roundover, working into the corner with a rasp or sanding block. You could tape the legs to protect them from a rasp.

[AceHoleInOne]

Don't know what kind of glue used? Try dry heat from a heat gun to the joint, it should loosen the glue to make it soft. Then pull apart.

-Ace-

[duckkisser]

thinking you might have to set it aside till you can get in there again.

[jhl.verona]

I agree with Ace. If it's PVA or hide glue heat will work. I didn't know that (as far as PVA is concerned) until I saw Paul-Marcel using the technique.

Where's the fun in doing everything right?

John

[BenMinshall]

I bet you can fix this just fine with a card scraper, sanding block and maybe a trim router. A trim router or even something like a dremel can put a 1/8" round over in some pretty tight spots.

[daneger]

Thanks fellas for your suggestions. Have been working it with a card scraper, that works pretty well but takes lots of elbow grease... Dremel is a nice idea; don't have a roundover for it but will look into that.

This was glued together with Titebond III. Because of the mass of the leg & rail, I don't think I can heat the joint in the same way as that dovetail. Really appreciate that tip though, it will come in handy for my future mistakes!

Keep making sawdust,

Dane

[daneger]

Just wanted to give an update. I was able to clean things up using a scraper and hand sanding. I bought a DeWalt mini router and rounded over the majority of the length, finishing up with hand tools and sanding again. Keeping the legs from becoming scarred while I worked the rail was my biggest concern, but by using a putty knife against one side, I got into the corner pretty well.

Overall, nobody but me will ever know that I caused many extra hours of work for myself on that assembly! (phew) Thanks to everyone for the good advice. I'll post some photos once we get some finish on the table. Now hoping for another few warm-ish days...

Dane

[daneger]

Hey, same project, many moons later... My garage was getting frigid in early December, so we moved this beast up to my friend's house for finishing. The drive is ~45 min each way, so it didn't make sense for him to trek over here, apply a coat of lacquer, and drive back home. Plus, he had a friend living with him temporarily who claimed expertise in finishing and spraying lacquer in particular (I was suspicious, but...).

I wrote out detailed instructions on the finishing project, as you see below. And to his credit, my friend followed them even though his house guest didn't provide any help or guidance. Everything was going great until he got in a hurry on the last sprayed coat of lacquer. Come on, you had to see that coming! He hadn't let the prior layer cure fully, and was working in a tight space. The final coat ended up with an extremely healthy (read: burly, thick like on a real orange) orange peel texture over much of the project. And to top it off, he saw a dog hair in the final coat and in trying to remove it he touched the top leaving a nice hand print. As a literally beginning woodworker/finisher, he did an incredible job. And he had the wisdom to stop working on the table at that point; now it's getting to be spring and the weather is nice enough we'll be repairing and completing the table finish outdoors.

I don't think it's possible to take this down to bare wood and start over; the lacquer is so much harder than the wood that mechanical removal is out, and a stripper would risk discoloring the beautiful mellow colors of the lenga.

Here's the question: What is your recommendation for how to repair the lacquer finish?

My thoughts: We will use a ROS and hand sanding to knock down 90% of the texture, trying to bring the surface close to the base layer/smooth. Then we will apply another coat of lacquer, which will blend in with the underlying layer. Finally we will sand this down in successive steps, similar to rubbing out a finish. Depending on the success of that, we'll apply an additional coat or two of lacquer and work the whole thing to flat and smooth.

Would really enjoy hearing your thoughts! (And yes, if you're thinking I'm crazy to let a beginner use my HVLP sprayer and apply a multi-step lacquer finish unsupervised - well, you're right...)

Completing the table

1. Fill holes & checks/cracks with epoxy

• One slow pump from each can gives the correct 5:1 mixing ratio for that formula. Stir slowly to mix thoroughly, and attempt to keep from entraining too many air bubbles.
  
• Sawdust can be stirred in, and dye added, to achieve the desired color/tint. Too much sawdust will make the epoxy thick, and it won’t completely flow to fill the holes.
  
• Use blue tape on other “exits” from the crack being filled, so epoxy is contained. Press the tape firmly without wrinkles.
  
• Using blue tape, surround the “entrance” of each crack so epoxy doesn’t get everywhere.
  
• Fill the cracks, and keep applying epoxy as it settles in. You want a shallow dome over each crack/hole when you’re done. Add too much, and you’ll just have more work to do later. Not enough, and the epoxy will be dished.
  
• Once the epoxy has fully cured hard (roughly 24 hours later), use the block plane to shave it down near the level of the table. Be careful not to gouge the wood.
  
  2. Surface Preparation
  • Base has been sanded to 150 grit everywhere. Unless it gets dents, scratches, etc. it should be ready for the next steps.
    
  • Top needs to be sanded
    
    • Start with bottom surface, then move to edges then top.
      
    • Use belt sander, 100-grit belt to gently sand the entire surface & remove planer marks, glue squeeze out, dents & pencil lines. Don’t go too far, and keep moving so it doesn’t dig in. 100 grit is aggressive.
      
    • Vacuum dust off the surface.
      
    • Use Random Orbital Sander (ROS) with 120-grit to continue smoothing. Go over whole surface. Remember, don’t press down just hold the sander firmly to the surface & move slowly. Don’t tip to the side!
      
    • After sanding face & sides, hand-sand the round-over edges with 120-grit to smooth them out. Remember to always sand with the grain!
      
    • Vacuum dust off the surfaces. Wipe down with mineral spirits & use a glancing light to inspect for dents, scratches, and even sanding. Touch up where needed.
      
    • Repeat iv-v with ROS @ 150-grit, and also sand exposed end grain (short sides of table top) with 180- and 220-grit. Vacuum after 150-grit sanding.
      
    • Repeat wipe-down with mineral spirits to verify even surface texture & no missed spots
      
      
      3. Seal coat (if needed)
      • Wipe on a thin coat of seal-coat shellac on all surfaces. Again, start with the least visible surfaces (underside of top) & finish with most visible (top).
        
      • After drying (~30-minutes or so? Touch it & if it’s cold or sticky it’s not dry enough) use a glancing light to inspect. Rub down with steel wool, and lightly sand areas where it looks thick. This should not build a layer, but just soak into open pores below the surface.
        

      4. Oil

      [*]Wipe on boiled linseed oil. This can be applied with a moderately thick coat, then wipe off the surface after a few minutes. Keep applying wherever it soaks in.

      [*]After 20-30 minutes, wipe off any small oil spots that can be seen.

      [*]Multiple coats can be used as desired.

      5. Top Coat

      [*]This is the set of layers that will provide physical protection from spills, etcetera. It also makes up the final feel & surface gloss, and enhances the oil/wood look (chatoyance).

      [*]I recommend a pre-catalyzed lacquer, such as SHER-WOOD® CAB-Acrylic Lacquer from Sherwin Williams. It should be sprayed in very thin coats. Because of the coat thickness and catalyst, multiple coats can be applied per day. So you can build up a finish fairly quickly. Each successive coat will cure slightly less quickly, so check before applying the next coat.

      [*]If you want a semi-gloss sheen, you should still apply gloss lacquer for all the layers except the last 1 or 2. Otherwise the intermediate layers will cloud the final appearance.

      [*]Start with the underside of the top (and edges), then coat the top of the top (and edges). Move the top to the next room. Then do the base, being sure to coat all surfaces since the lacquer also limits moisture uptake so will be important in keeping the other pieces stable over time. Pay particular attention to drips, and also to getting a healthy coat on the feet.

      [*]After the first coat of lacquer, sand lightly with 320 grit sandpaper to remove any of the tiny bumps that typically show up. After all other coats (possibly except the last one), smooth with #0000 (pronounced “four-ought”) steel wool. Wipe off the sanding dust with a rag & mineral spirits.

      [*]Apply furniture polish or a durable hard wax (such as Renaissance Wax) if desired. Apply a very light coat with a soft rag, allow to dry for a short period, and remove by buffing with a clean cloth. This is similar to waxing a car.

[AceHoleInOne]

Is SHER-WOOD® CAB-Acrylic Lacquer a solvent lacquer? if so:

Wow that is a lot of reading and hope I didn't miss anything??? So basically you have an orange peel surface, is that correct?

Don't go crazy sanding, your goal is to knock down the high spots of the orange peel to meet the lower portion of the surface. Think of it as mountain top's and a valley below. Sand off the mountain top to meet the valley. Shoot a coat to level things off. Repeat as necessary till flat and smooth.

[dwacker]

I'd use a 1/4 sheet sander WET to level out the flat surfaces going from about 400 up to 1000g, reshoot and do it again 600 up to 2000g. Besides the errors it sounds like you finish didnt flow, either temp or gun issues. Make sure you use the right needle/tip set in your gun. Thin it if needed regardless of what the can says.

Don

[daneger]

Yeah Ace - sorry! I definitely got a bit carried away. Better than "what should I do about my lacquer finishing problem?" posts, though! I agree on just knocking down the high spots and then respraying and finishing/rubbing out from there.

Don, yes the temperature was certainly a likely issue. The bonus room in which he was spraying is a converted garage with minimal heat, and the registers were taped off to avoid spreading fumes to the house. As I wasn't there (unfortunately) I can't comment on whether the viscosity was correct but agree on cutting with thinner for our repair. Redoing this in appropriate temperatures will be a big improvement!