Brian VanVreede Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 OK, so the client Wants there oak kitchen table refinished. They want the top black and the base a cherry color to match their cabinets. I want to be able to still see the grain on the table top, even though its black. Does any one have a recommendation? Maybe some white grain filler, but what do i.use for the black color? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Do you what to see some of the oak tan color show through as well. Do you have a picture to show us to get the juices flowing? You can add Transtint black to some General Finishes water-based Natural (its their stain tint base) apply like a stain. Also could uses that same General Finishes Natural and add some black General Finishes milk paint. Or if ya want some pigments add black General Finishes water based glaze to the Natural. Do you have the ability to spray a black dye? Just depends what you want to see....a picture would be very helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 OK so I'm picking up the table tomorrow so ill try to get some photos uploaded(even though I'm still having problems uploading my profile pic but that's a different story) No, they don't want to see the tan of the oak, they just want to still be able to see the grain. We have no spray gun. I've never heard of mixing milk paint with a finish bit it sounds interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preeng2 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Black dye, seal, black pigment stain, seal, clear topcoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Isn't there an ebonizing thing you can do with oak to turn it black? Some highly poisonous fumes, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Its going to be very hard to get a consistant black finish on oak without concealing a big part of the grain without going through a ebonizing regimin. Your going to be better off spraying a wb black stain like general finishes and deal with the loss of grain. If you dont have a sprayer I'd buy a cheap cup sprayer for the stain and sealer. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Isn't there an ebonizing thing you can do with oak to turn it black? Some highly poisonous fumes, I think. India ink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 What about using a white grain filler? Wont that make the grain pop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Are you talking about a cerused oak finish? Do a google search. Lots of good information on it. I have never done one. Its very straight forward. You could probably add some black to the white grain filler to tone the white down so it won't looks so stark. Just a suggestion. Purchase an oak board and work out your finishing schedule ( and technique) before you take it to the project. Since this is a refinish job...chances are the grain is already filled. So probably a good chemical strip and clean out the pores with a wire brush so the white grain filler has a place to rest in. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ace, that's exactly what I am looking for! Do you or any one else reading this have any experience with this type of finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Brian....I have fussed a little with this...as I said above... I have never used this technique on an actual project. Not really difficult. My concern is you getting your oaks pores really clean to accept the grain filler (refinish job right ) Then get your wood black is easy. Apply a few coats of black dye. Then go over it with a pitch black glaze or stain. Seal that down with a wash coat then gain fill. Do you have any hardwood floor companys near by? They usually sell the good grain fillers and should have white...Woodwise is good stuff. Don't use drywall mud as a grain filler using a water-based topcoat...it will kill the grain filler almost making it transparent...its just to weak for water-based. Some guys will use white paint as a grain filler (I have not tried that) As I suggested...spend some money get an oak board and practice!!!!!!!!!!! Not that difficult! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I really like the idea that you gave of "toning" the white of the grain filler down so that its not so stark. When I do a test board ill be able to practice the technique and get a good idea of what the table will look like but wont there be some variation due to the fact that im using fresh unfinished wood? Wait, as im typing that last sentence I looked up at your last reply and realized you already answered that question! I have to make sure we properly strip all of the old finish out of the table! While I was google-ing cerused oak finish I saw that it wasnt just done black and white. I personally liked the look of really dark grain while still keeping the oaks natural finish. This is going to be a fun project for me! The prep work is going to ba a dog but im still full of enough "piss and vinager" that I wont mind the grunt work! Thanks again Ace, beechwood chip, and dwacker for contributing on this thread! Ill try and take some pics and post them in the project journal section once we get started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 They sky is the limit on the grain filling. Actually with Woodwise you can blend different colors of filler to create custom colors. On black a white/gold tone filler is cool looking. Just try white by itself... you may like it, because the black in the pores will tone down the white/white some, just depends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Paint and varnish strippers suck! My brother and I wasted several hours fumbling around with the stripper and the only thing it did was remove the old varnish and a little bit of the stain. There was still tons of sanding to do after stripping. So I just continued on with the grunt work of hand sanding the legs and spindles without using any stripper and although it was more physical work, it was much more efficient than just trying to use stripper and then sand. Well, time to buy some more sand paper and get back to sanding!! I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry to hear its not going well. Did you used a good stripper that contains metholinene cloride? The green products are just not as aggressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I also like real India Ink for ebonizing... Not cheap for a table, though. In my eye, it's the blackest and most fade resistant. Many of the black woodworking dyes can fade to a purple or blue in less time than one would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 So I wouldn't say the job is going horrible but its not going as fast...... we have a combined 23 hours into the job and the table and all of its components have been completely sanded (no stripping what so ever). And We have 1.5 of the 3 chairs sanded. The table only took 7 hours to prep, the chairs are the real headache. Almost there..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ok so im FINALLY getting around to posting some pics here! Here are some before pics.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 This is where we are at.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 WTO episode 71 has a great discussion on the application of grain filler! Its also Shannon's first episode as a host! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Lots of fun Brian..eh? What's going to be your approach to remove the built up finish from around the spindles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Either lots of hand sanding, lightly go In with a wire brush at the end of my drill then smooth that out with hand sanding. Or, the legs are getting dyed a cherry color, would it look like crap if the jointed were a little bit darker? I'm not worried with filling the grain on the legs. Oh and ya, TONS OF FUN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I sure wish you reconsider chemical strip. It will save you from lots of sanding...but I understand its not for everyone. Carry on...good luck. Remember if your going at that oak with coarse grit papers. You need to sand everything back up through the grits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I guess every stripper deserves a second chance..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 So we finally finished prepping everything last weekend so it was time to move on to test samples. We tested, minwax ebony on one board and a mixture of GF water based, stain base mixed with mixol black on another . Neither of these gave us the results we were looking for. So I was flipping through an old issue of pop wood and came across a project where they used a mixture of rusty nails and white vinegar to produce a jet black finish. The rusty metal is currently soaking in white vinegar at my shop. I'm hoping this works.... ill get some pics up as soon as I get a chance to try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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