MIKWoodworking Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I am 17 and I started my business 6 months ago. Right now is a hard time and I am having trouble getting orders. Do you have any marketing ideas or strategy? I have a website with an online store (www.mikwoodworking.com) and have used word of mouth, flyers, craigslist, and other methods and have gotten very little business. Can anybody help? Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 have you tried etsy for smaller iteams? its a craft site that you can sell in a store you make. im in the same boat as you but you are farther along then i am. I havent goten a site up and going but then again dont have as much to sell because most of my day is teaching and running a classroom. i have strummed up a little busness just by going to lumber stores and big box stores like menards. i go there and talk to people in the lumber areas finding out what they are building. then i throw out what i have done and if they want something to just give me a ring and i give them my card. sometimes i get order sometimes i dont but i have talked to some intursting people. couple weeks ago talked to a guy who owns hawks and owls and he wants a fancy stand for shows. i think your bigest hardship is going to be that you are 17 and people are going to not take you serously in person. but once you start geting a list of people who can be references you will start doing better. here is the advice i was given keep track of you clients with what they like, what you made how much you charged, family history ect. and all the relivent information like phone numbers. that way you can create iteams that are custom for them for their likes. then create a simple letter thanking them for past busness and offer a small price cut since they have been a valued customer. then send out the letters with a busness card once a year. at the start you will need the extra reminders and it wont be that pricy but when you start mailing out like 20-30 letters and the price goes up. as the price goes up cut it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKWoodworking Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Thanks, I have a few items on etsy for around a week and nothing has sold yet. How long does an average item take to sell? I sent out emails to past customers with discounts and I have not gotten much business. I also give business cards to almost everyone I meet that I think may be interested. I think it is because it is after the holidays, January is tough. I had decent sales in december. Thank you for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 i know a few guys who make stuff year round and then sell couple months before christmass and they sell out most what they make. thats what im going to try doing make boxes, wands, key chains, desk sets ect..... small iteams and set up a booth at a country fair and see what i can make. you might want to try that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKWoodworking Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I Do craft shows and tournaments (for the cornhole boards) and I have seemed to waste my time. My area think of craft shows as more of garge sales and want cheap prices. Tournaments I have found ok. I wish there was an easy way to Market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I took a look around your website. To be blunt and honest the first thing I'd do is take it down. You have more empty pages than pages with content. The first thing I noticed right off the bat is the chair on your home page. That is not your chair, its a copy and pasted image that was stolen. You cannot use other peoples pictures. First off its theft plain and simple. Next its misrepresenting yourself and your product. Real businesses pay big money to have photos taken for their websites. Next your site is lacking terms and conditions. By law you must have these to protect you and the consumer. But at 17yrs old it really doesnt matter much because you cannot legally enter into a contract. This leaves your parent responsible for anything that may go haywire. Next your photos look like they were taken randomly with a cell phone. You need to get yourself a better camera. Doesnt need to be an expensive dslr but it does need to be decent. Also you need to invest in some lighting and some backdrops even if they are just canvas tarps from home depot. Use the back drops and get the right light for the photo. Next is paypal. Paypal says "unprofessional and cant be trusted". Anyone that breathes can use paypal. After you turn 18 get yourself a real merchant account even if its something like Intuit Go Payment. In order to do this you will need a real business, real business bank account, and an ein. Go payment will let you go to shows and tournaments having the ability to take credit cards. Trust me it will boost your sales, every adult in america uses debit cards and most dont bother with cash. Credit cards are a MUST. Heck with the internet, the things your offering are crafts. Comb your hair and put on some decent clothes and hit the bricks. Take a few of your chairs to every nursury, mom and pop store anyplace you can find to display. This summer find yourself a busy corner and fill the back of a truck with those chairs.Plant your butt and see what happens. Make sure you have cards printed to give out to the lookie loos. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing, your just going about it all wrong. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 +1 on PayPal = "bush league"... Other reasonable credit card merchant account sources can include Costco, local credit unions, and some of the new smart phone solutions. You can take PayPal in addition to the rest of the methods, but you want to be able to directly take and swipe a card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 +1 on PayPal = "bush league"... Other reasonable credit card merchant account sources can include Costco, local credit unions, and some of the new smart phone solutions. You can take PayPal in addition to the rest of the methods, but you want to be able to directly take and swipe a card. I wouldnt take paypal period. Use one service only. Why? First the federal government is going after "paypal businesses". With the 1099k legislation the IRS is looking hard at every paypal account. As of now the 1099k is set at 20 grand but the IRS is looking at every account because using Paypal has been a tax fraud scam for years. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsFan Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't run a business, but just to throw my $0.02 in as a consumer who buys nearly everything on the internet: sometimes I prefer paypal. While I may want to buy something from a site, I don't always trust them with my credit card number (both because if it's a smaller site I may not know them enough to trust them, and if it's a smaller site I may not trust them enough to have implemented everything correctly). Hell, I pay with paypal on quite a few larger sites as well sometimes. So I'm not saying that taking credit cards is bad, I'm just saying that having a paypal option is not a terrible idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 One more thing. Your site says "Licensed logo packages" This would say to the consumer that you purchased a license from the NFL........................... If this is not the case you need to get that off NOW!!! The first sale doctrine says you can however resell those stickers and apply them to your product. You CANNOT imply that they are licensed. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't run a business, but just to throw my $0.02 in as a consumer who buys nearly everything on the internet: sometimes I prefer paypal. While I may want to buy something from a site, I don't always trust them with my credit card number (both because if it's a smaller site I may not know them enough to trust them, and if it's a smaller site I may not trust them enough to have implemented everything correctly). Hell, I pay with paypal on quite a few larger sites as well sometimes. So I'm not saying that taking credit cards is bad, I'm just saying that having a paypal option is not a terrible idea. Paypal is not so bad from the consumer prospective. It is terrible from a business perspective. You have to be able to hand the accounts and their related fees properly. At 17yrs old the OP does not need to find himself in the grips of the IRS or state revenue departments. We are going to see a huge decline of internet businesses in the next few years. Most of these are going to be the little guy not running legit. Come Jan this year 1099K's start hitting mail boxes and people are going to start scurrying around trying to find a way to get out of the trouble they are in. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoigt Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Well for starting out, paypal is fine. You don't need to get into something that charges you a month fee when you aren't even sure if you are going to have an order that month. I only have paypal and have never had it be a deal breaker on a sale. As you get more and more people on board with you having more options is a good idea, but grow into it. Also, don't let your age limit you. True there is no substitute for experience, but if you are doing alot of things online people may never see you or even speak with you. I have shipped many things not knowing if the "Pat" I sent it to was male or female, let alone their age. Dealing face to face may be a different store, but you just need to let the quality of your work speak for you. I'm on Etsy, and it is flooded with items, so it is really hard to stand out. You need to constantly be adding or renewing items so that they get to the top of the page. It is unlikely that someone is going to go 8 pages deep when a similar item is on the first page. I've had items sell within a few days and others on there for years, and still there. Most of my work has been through referrals and word of mouth. I have had very few people just randomly find me and buy something. So that takes time to build up the clientele and referrals. You are going to have to get out there marketing to like pushing a boulder up a hill, it takes alot of work and effort to get it off the ground, and hopefully at some point you crest the hill and it becomes alot easier. I also sell to people at my regular job too, so don't discount a 9-5 job that you may have as a place to sell stuff. Just don't be too pushy or people won't want to talk to you. For your website, it is too big for you right now. You don't need to divide things into so many subcategories. Just have "furniture" and show pictures (your own pictures) of things you've made and write a sentence about what it is, how big, and what it is made out of. Once you have made 3-5 different items then maybe add in subcategories, but until then keep it simple and expand your web page as you really are expanding your products. Don't think that you are going to miss out on some sale because you didn't list "coffee table" as something you can do. Chances are if someone is coming to you for a custom piece it is because they have seen several of the other tables you have made, not because you listed it on your site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 the IRS is looking at every account because using Paypal has been a tax fraud scam for years. In other words... like... cash transactions? Keep solid basic records, forward your sales taxes and file your returns on time... It's that easy. No need to fear the tax man if you're legit. If a specific transaction method costs a lot more than others, surcharge it. The smartphone credit card acceptors are getting very common. I see them at craft shows, with independent flight instructors, even my massage therapist... I would still accept PayPal, for those occasions a customer insisted on using it, but accepting cards directly adds credibility and legitimacy to a business. There is also the possibility of having ways to accept certain forms of payment, but not advertising them. In this case, if the customer asks, and possibly insists, you can still make the sale. For example, our bicycle shops get killed by AMEX transactions. We don't advertise that we take AMEX, and will usually ask customers who present it if they have another form of payment. If they insist on using it, we actually do accept it, but we surcharge it and have a minimum ticket size if it's used... As you grow and gain a reputation, you can be picky about payment methods. As a brand new business, you want to be as friendly, dependable, and as easy to do business with, as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Keep solid basic records, forward your sales taxes and file your returns on time... It's that easy. No need to fear the tax man if you're legit. You should never be in fear of the tax man. On the otherhand if your going to go out on and adventure like this you do need to have some very basic understanding. For example. Bob decides he is going to turn his hobby into a part time business, he wants to make enough money to get a new tablesaw and other stuff for his shop. Doesnt really care how long it takes him to get a job done, he doesnt rely on the money for anything but toys. Bob works all day long at the widget factory, gets a good paycheck and comes home at night and sells furniture. He does everything correct, he pays the state tax has a business license, track and keeps records, files his schedule C. The first year bob gets a new tablesaw and depreciates it just like any business would, after depreciation he shows no profit. Second year a new planer, no profit, Third year new drum sander, no profit, Fourth year new shaper, no profit. Things are rolling along just fine and the fifth year comes and goes, new toys and no profit. Bob paid all his income taxes, claimed every penny he made from woodworking and his job at the widget factory. He got some nice middle income fatty typical tax returns and bought some more new toys. Life is good right! Think again, Bob is in some pretty deep dung. Why? Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Think again, Bob is in some pretty deep dung. Why? Don I'll bite... Why? I ask because I've done exactly that, with guidance from a CPA, with several part-time businesses, yet no dung has been flung... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'll bite... Why? I ask because I've done exactly that, with guidance from a CPA, with several part-time businesses, yet no dung has been flung... Then you didnt get audited. My wife employs a tax lawyer full time and he spends 100% of his time dealing with only this issue. Bob gets audited no biggy, he packs up his stuff heads to the lawyers office and the IRS auditor is sitting there with the lawyer and Bobs cpa. Bob thinks no big deal my cpa has been doing my taxes for years. Bob "tell me about your business he says" "well its just something I do on the side to pick up spare change for toys" The auditor already knows this hes not an idiot. Well what Bob didnt know is that the IRS could care less about his state license or anything else. What Bob didnt know is the only business he really had exisited only in his mind nothing more than a well intended dilusion. The IRS see's Bobs business as a hobby. Bob should not have written off all those business expenses. Bob does not get that luxury because he was not really a business. So the IRS takes away all those write offs and declares all of Bobs hobby income as income for the past 7 years. Bob made some pretty good hobby money the toys are not cheap. Now Bob owes the income taxes and all the penalties and interest nearly double what he actually made. Well there is no way for the CPA to know your intensions. There is no way he could tell from your stack of paperwork that you never intended to build a growing business. All he knew is that you were not making money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKWoodworking Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I have paypal for my website and Intuit Go-Payment for my local sales. I do have terms and conditions on my site and also mention in the terms that decals come with the boards and must be applied by the customer. I do take my own pictures and I have back drops and green screens. I have a business license, naming rights and my own business bank account. I also keep track of all my records. I am just trying to find marketing techniques. My site has empty pages that are waiting for pictures and pricing. I also have business cards and most of my sales are face to face. I am not doing anything business wise wrong, I have done my research. I just want some Marketing Ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 The pic on the front page is not yours nor is the china checker board. Not comming down on you but you want to know about marketing. Dont use other peoples marketing. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKWoodworking Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Is online advertising worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKWoodworking Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 BTW that was my adirondack chair, I have access to white backrounds. and I use turf and a brick backround and photoshop for my cornhole pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoigt Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Then you didnt get audited. My wife employs a tax lawyer full time and he spends 100% of his time dealing with only this issue. Bob gets audited no biggy, he packs up his stuff heads to the lawyers office and the IRS auditor is sitting there with the lawyer and Bobs cpa. Bob thinks no big deal my cpa has been doing my taxes for years. Bob "tell me about your business he says" "well its just something I do on the side to pick up spare change for toys" The auditor already knows this hes not an idiot. Well what Bob didnt know is that the IRS could care less about his state license or anything else. What Bob didnt know is the only business he really had exisited only in his mind nothing more than a well intended dilusion. The IRS see's Bobs business as a hobby. Bob should not have written off all those business expenses. Bob does not get that luxury because he was not really a business. So the IRS takes away all those write offs and declares all of Bobs hobby income as income for the past 7 years. Bob made some pretty good hobby money the toys are not cheap. Now Bob owes the income taxes and all the penalties and interest nearly double what he actually made. Well there is no way for the CPA to know your intensions. There is no way he could tell from your stack of paperwork that you never intended to build a growing business. All he knew is that you were not making money. I've always heard that after 5 years of no profit it is considered a "hobby" but never that you had to pay back over the previous years, just that you couldn't make write offs any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKWoodworking Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I havent heard of that either, I checked it out and have not heard of that til now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboMonk Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Don't trust "I heard" information on the Internet. Speak to a tax professional. The IRS allows for hobby losses up to the extent of revenue. IOW, you can break-even but not apply any losses to other income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoigt Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Don't trust "I heard" information on the Internet. Speak to a tax professional. Good me neither, I never said it was from the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboMonk Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Professional wood crafting is my full-time business. I still supplement my income with a little business consulting. See attached... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.