North Dakota Winters - heating the shop

[Pbmaster11]

I have a small 1.5 stall garage (over sized). We are in our first home and eventually will be moving into a larger home which will have a bigger garage (thank god!).

My concern is coming to this winter. The garage's walls are insulated and the ceiling isn't completed yet, i will sheet rock and insulate the attic later this fall.

What are my options to heat?

small electric heater (permanently installed, sized appropriately)

pellet stove (big enough to satisfy the future sized garage)

any other options?

I would like to eventually buy a home size pellet mill (have a good line on brand new ones for around $1400)

thoughts?

[TRBaker]

Pb, what is a pellet stove? I've never heard of one before.

[Andrew Pritchard]

Pellet stoves are a great solution. They combine the cheapness of wood as a fuel source with the control of an electric fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellet_stove

[DustinK]

I'm interested in other's opinions on this as well, as I'm just north of you in Manitoba and planning to convert half of my attached garage into a shop. A few things to consider with any sort of wood burning stove: a) Probably will increase the cost of your home owners insurance, b ) Will likely require installation of a chimney on the exterior of the building, extending above the highest point on your roof. A neighbor of mine did this, and the pipe needed to extend above the height of his 2nd story roof, and it looks pretty ugly.

I was thinking some sort of electrical heaters, propane, or something which connects to my natural gas would be simpler. Haven't done any research yet myself, but I had a few other questions which might be applicable here. With the extreme cold we get up here (-20 to -40), would you leave the heater on all the time to maintain a minimum temperature or just run it when using the shop? What kind of output would be needed to heat a 400 sq ft space with an 8' ceiling? Does anybody have any good solutions for insulating a metal garage door?

[tim0625]

Heater....hook it to a propane tank and let it run. I have one and heat a detached 2 car garage/shop- it's a beast and will warm things up in a hurry. I don't know if you want to use it to warm things and then maintain with some other heater or just heat things up and run this one one low but I'm thinking it will combat even the North Dakota winter. Here in SC it's radically different from what you face but I heat things up and run it on low because my shop leaks badly now....I'm calling in an air strike of expanding foam before winter hits - point, with your space tighter and insulated, the heater would work good for you.

[jab73180]

You could probably find a good used mobile home furnace. I'm using a furnace out of a camper trailer myself. It works good because it's direct vent. I would look for a direct vent propane wall heater. I hope this helps have a great weekend.

[Jfitz]

I would not go with one of those torpedo-style propane heaters. With how much you would have to run it, the moisture would be bad and the fumes and risk of CO too dangerous IMO.

A direct-vent heater would be a great solution. What's your budget? A high efficiency heater takes combustion air in from the outside, so you are not drawing cold air through your space and warming it just so it can go out the vent or up the chimney.

I like pellet stoves but in a small space you would have to be concerned about losing too much space around it for clearance.

I don't know what electricity costs are up there, but a well sized and installed electric heater should be considered.

What is the heating system in the house? Is it an attached or detached garage?

[tim0625]

I would not go with one of those torpedo-style propane heaters. With how much you would have to run it, the moisture would be bad and the fumes and risk of CO too dangerous IMO.

A direct-vent heater would be a great solution. What's your budget? A high efficiency heater takes combustion air in from the outside, so you are not drawing cold air through your space and warming it just so it can go out the vent or up the chimney.

I like pellet stoves but in a small space you would have to be concerned about losing too much space around it for clearance.

I don't know what electricity costs are up there, but a well sized and installed electric heater should be considered.

What is the heating system in the house? Is it an attached or detached garage?

John, you have a point..my shop is 'drafty' now so fumes or CO2 isn't a problem but....when I tighten it up before winter, I will have to rethink things.

You guys in the cold climates have a challenge. In SC, usually, just knock the chill off and go to work. The challenge here is keeping the place cool with 95 degrees and 95% humidity

[Trip]

==> Pellet stoves

friend of mine heats 2600sq ft w/ 2 pellet stoves. he loves them, but was complaining that he cost of pellets has risen dramatically in the past few years. you may want to check it out.

[Jfitz]

Tim - excellent point. Those heaters are great for taking the edge off. A friend used to use it when it was only a little chilly in his garage - he would run it while he had his morning coffee to warm it up a little but for truly colder days he had to turn the heat on. I'm sure ND has more than their share of days that are just a tad more than "chilly"

Here in New England we do get below-zero days in the winter and also 90+ days with high humidity in the summer. Gotta be prepared on both ends, but thankfully we don't get to the 20 below (or colder) range that our friends up north get.

[DustinK]

Heater....hook it to a propane tank and let it run.

While that looks like it would do a good job in warming a shop up, that site states that a 100lb tank will last 22 hours. So a 20lb tank will last a little over 4 hours. That's an expensive day in the shop if you need a propane refill every 4 hours. Lets say you extend that by running it on a lower setting, thats still an aweful lot of refils.

[tim0625]

While that looks like it would do a good job in warming a shop up, that site states that a 100lb tank will last 22 hours. So a 20lb tank will last a little over 4 hours. That's an expensive day in the shop if you need a propane refill every 4 hours. Lets say you extend that by running it on a lower setting, that"s still a lot of refills.

You has a point! I can't argue because I've not run mine on high for that long...I just knocked the edge off an went to low. It seems PBMaster will probably need a little more heat. I do have a natural gas heater that a friend gave me. It used to heat an entire 1200 sq ft house. That might be a cheaper way to go if we actually have a winter this year. I don't think any of us had much of one last year.

[Pbmaster11]

it is an attached garage. central heating/air.

i do have a natural gas valve on the patio (right next to the garage) for the grill... i could split and run to a NG heater... cheap and easy? thoughts? anyone have any history with NG heaters?

thinking of doing something like this... thoughts?

[Jfitz]

PBM, is there any chance of hooking into the house's heating system? Then you would also get AC in the summertime

[Pbmaster11]

call an HVAC guy to have him look into it?

[Jim DaddyO]

I don't think you will be able to (legally) run a split off your gas line meant for the grill. For it to be within code it must be a certain diameter based on the length of run and the volume needed at the end of that run. The one going out for your grill is sized accordingly and is not meant to handle the volume of gas required for a heater, let alone the heater AND the grill. Now, perhaps the original builder of the home overbuilt and installed a bigger than needed pipe to feed the grill (unlikely), but before I went down this avenue, I would call a qualified installer and have him look at it. You are going to have to get a permit to install the heater anyways. I would strongly suggest you get a pro to put it in. A mistake here could be your last one

[Pbmaster11]

I don't think you will be able to (legally) run a split off your gas line meant for the grill. For it to be within code it must be a certain diameter based on the length of run and the volume needed at the end of that run. The one going out for your grill is sized accordingly and is not meant to handle the volume of gas required for a heater, let alone the heater AND the grill. Now, perhaps the original builder of the home overbuilt and installed a bigger than needed pipe to feed the grill (unlikely), but before I went down this avenue, I would call a qualified installer and have him look at it. You are going to have to get a permit to install the heater anyways. I would strongly suggest you get a pro to put it in. A mistake here could be your last one

couldn't agree more

[Trip]

==> Now, perhaps the original builder of the home overbuilt and installed a bigger than needed pipe to feed the grill (unlikely), but before I went down this avenue, I would call a qualified installer and have him look at it.

Mine did just that that --- he put a large diameter into a manifold for 'future expansion' and ran the gas grill, patio heaters, dryer off that manifold with about 50,000BTUs to spare from two remaining manifold ports.

[Jim DaddyO]

==> Now, perhaps the original builder of the home overbuilt and installed a bigger than needed pipe to feed the grill (unlikely), but before I went down this avenue, I would call a qualified installer and have him look at it.

Mine did just that that --- he put a large diameter into a manifold for 'future expansion' and ran the gas grill, patio heaters, dryer off that manifold with about 50,000BTUs to spare from two remaining manifold ports.

Like I said, it is unlikely, not impossible. I would think that you are an exception to the rule (the rule being, give the customer what he wants, but no more than that because we have to maximize profit). Also, it is unlikely that the average person would know if it is in compliance without some working knowledge of the trade. Stay safe.