Ventilation in winter?


mayhew

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I've just started reading up as much as I can on the art of finishing, because I've finally completed the woodworking on my first project ever, and it's now time to put a finish on it. The thing is, I've read in so many places that finishing needs to be done in a well-ventilated area, and after taking a whiff of some of the stuff used in finishing, I'd have to agree. Here's the problem: it's winter, and that means temperatures of up to -40° outside - not the sort of conditions you want to so much as crack a window in (in fact, a lot of windows end up frozen shut). So what does one do about finishing fumes and ventilation in winter time? We live on the top floor of a top/bottom duplex, and the only space I have for a work area is in the basement. I'm concerned that 1) the fumes will build up and be bad for our health and 2) the fumes will smell enough that our downstairs neighbours will be able to smell it in the hallway outside their suite (or worse, inside) and complain and I'll get shut down. I have a cheap oscillating fan that I could put down there, but presumably just pushing the air around won't really be much help?

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Hi Mayhew - that's a tricky situation, between the cold weather and sharing a space with a neighbor. Now, normally I'm the last person who should be giving finishing advice, but I feel comfortable saying that you should investigate the various water-based finishes. They are advertised as low odor, fast drying, and easier cleanup. If you're going to go through a learning curve to learn how to finish, you may as well go water-based out of the chute.

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Hi John, thanks for your reply. Most of my education so far (haven't had time to spread out my research through multiple sources yet) comes from the 1994 edition of Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner (found it in PDF form online, picking up the revised 2005 edition from the library tomorrow). In that book, Flexner states that water based finishes are much more difficult to brush and so are generally sprayed, and that they're also less resistant to heat, water, solvents, etc. - ie. a hot coffee mug will damage the finish, you can water rings, etc. Now, it's an old book so I wouldn't be surprised if advances in technology have rendered it obsolete, but from the impression I'd received from the book, water based finishes made me nervous because it seemed they'd be far more complicated to use and not abuse (don't put hot things on it, don't let it get wet, don't get nail polish remover on it, etc.) Is it possible to get a non-fragile finish for general house-hold objects via water-based finishes?

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I have no experience with wb finishes, so I can't answer your questions. But from following this and other ww'ing forums, it seems to me that a lot of advances have been made recently (and definitely since 1994!!). Spread your research and education to include wb finishes. You ask some great questions, and I hope people with direct experience can jump in.

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I stained about 1100 LF of molding in our basement using a water based stain from Sherman Williams without any issue. I don't know if it was the smart thing to do or not, but it definatley didn't stink up the whole house. We finished with Minwax water based poly.

I typically prefer oil based finishes, but the water based turn out pretty good. It is definatley more work, but I think you can get a similar quality if you take your time, and don't mind sanding between coats.

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Thanks for the feedback, Chris.

I've been trying to do a lot of research on water-based finishes, but I'm pretty leery of a lot of the information I've found since it seems to come from the manufacturers themselves, and I never trust someone to provide unbiased information if they'll make more money by telling me certain things. I did get a chance to read the sections on water-based finished in Flexner on Finishing and Understanding Wood Finishing (2005), though I still have a few things I'm confused on. I don't know if I should open a new thread for the questions since they're unrelated to the original thread topic, but I'll post them here and open a new thread if you guys think I should. That being said, please note that I'd still love any input on winter ventilation - even if I do decide to primarily use water-based finishes, I'm sure it would be nice to use lacquer or varnish at some point, which won't be possible unless I can figure out how to manage the fumes (did a test run with polyurethane and my neighbours didn't like it one bit, oops!)

So, on to my confusion: Flexner mentions that after a water-based finish dries, the finish won't be damaged at all by water. He then goes on to say that water-based finishes aren't anywhere near as water-resistant as a regular varnish. I was quite confused by this, but I then surmised that just because the finish won't be damage by the water, doesn't mean it won't leak through the finish and then damage the wood. Is this correct? If so, I'd assume that higher water resistance means the water takes longer to soak through the finish. If that's the case, then after you wipe up the water sitting on the surface of the finish, does the water then just pool there down amongst the layers of finish, or does it evaporate or something? My second question is that originally on the 1994 edition of Understanding Wood Finishing, Flexner states that you should use gloss for every layer except sealer/topcoat etc., and then use the final desired sheen on your topcoat only, or else the underlying coats of less-than-gloss will affect the clarity of the finish. However, I don't seem to see that claim supported by other, more recent information I read. Is this still an issue?

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I can tell you prom experience that water borne finishes work great. This is all I use for two reasons. The first being I live in California and most oil and solvent based finished are being banned the second is I find it easier to handle (clean up, storage, disposal). I mainly use General Finishes top coats and stains. I recommend if you are not going to be able to spray not to use a water based dye or stain due to the fact that they dry very fast and can be a pain to do large areas without getting lap marks. Second if you are going to brush use General Finishes Enduro Var. It lays down very well when using a foam brush. If this is an exterior project use General Finishes 450 which lays down well also. Dry time is any where from 30 - 60 minutes on both. The Enduro says 2-4 but I find that to not be the case.

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Thanks Charles! Lee Valley was where I was going to get any finishes from, and their main water-based top coats are all General Finishes, including Enduro Var, 450, and High Performance. I couldn't tell the difference between Enduro Var and High Performance, but Enduro Var is in their professional line so I figured it should be higher quality. I was thinking I'd use LV's "Japanese Varnish Brush" because it's their only synthetic brush and I don't trust Home Despot, plus I hoped it would have higher quality and longevity than the foam brushes (although the slanted handle seems strange to me).

When people say that a finish has less water resistance etc. than another finish, what exactly does that mean for me practically? I mean, right now the stuff I make is gifts for other people, and if I give them something and say "you need to be careful about not getting water on this", they'll ask "how careful?" I can't exactly say "more careful than you would be with polyurethane", so how can I know how anal one has to be in terms of caring for a particular finish?

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