Cabnetry wisdom needed

[Jerry_in_SD]

Hi all,

This is not exactly fine woodworking but I do have home projects that are not always furniture items. I am building a built in amoire as best to describe it. It fits between two walls that are 68" apart. There will be a base that will be installed first and screwed to the subfloor. Two large cases, each 33" wide, sit on the base and are screwed together. Cases are of pre-finished birch ply. Face frame will be applied after the cases are set in place and screwed to the base and wall.

Here is the question. A single crown molding sits across the top of this, 68" wide. The stiles on both sides against the walls will be scribed in so should sit nicely against the walls. The question is what to do with the one piece crown. If I cut it to almost exactly 68" it will be difficult to get into place. If I cut it slightly short, there will be gaps on one or both sides. I could do it with two separate pieces but then would have a joint in the center. I was thinking to keep it a little short (1/8" either end) and come up with some simple very small molding to cover the crown molding gap where it meets the walls on either side.

Anyone have an idea? I've attached a sketchup file that I use just to figure out some of the detail. Doesn't show crown for example. But if you can imagine a crown across the top that meets a wall on either side.

builtin.skp

[Vic]

buy a little extra crown molding and get your scribing measurements set on it and transfer to the one long piece. There are probably better ways to do this, but it's what I've done in the past.

[Gregory Paolini]

Hi all,

This is not exactly fine woodworking but I do have home projects that are not always furniture items. I am building a built in amoire as best to describe it. It fits between two walls that are 68" apart. There will be a base that will be installed first and screwed to the subfloor. Two large cases, each 33" wide, sit on the base and are screwed together. Cases are of pre-finished birch ply. Face frame will be applied after the cases are set in place and screwed to the base and wall.

Here is the question. A single crown molding sits across the top of this, 68" wide. The stiles on both sides against the walls will be scribed in so should sit nicely against the walls. The question is what to do with the one piece crown. If I cut it to almost exactly 68" it will be difficult to get into place. If I cut it slightly short, there will be gaps on one or both sides. I could do it with two separate pieces but then would have a joint in the center. I was thinking to keep it a little short (1/8" either end) and come up with some simple very small molding to cover the crown molding gap where it meets the walls on either side.

Anyone have an idea? I've attached a sketchup file that I use just to figure out some of the detail. Doesn't show crown for example. But if you can imagine a crown across the top that meets a wall on either side.

It's not the answer you want to hear, but go for the single piece scribed in place. It will look so much better in the end, and really be another tier that showcase your woodworking skills - Sure it will be a lot of extra work, on such a small piece - But it's usually the littlest things that make the biggest difference!

[Jerry_in_SD]

However to scribe, I need the piece to be slightly longer so that I can draw the scribe line from the wall I and I couldn't get the piece in place to do that step. I am trying to fix exactly between two walls with one piece. I will experiment. I may try doing it in two halves with some small trim detail to cover the seam or leave it a little short and make a mini molding cove detail and pin in place to cover the gap with the wall -- sort of like a mini shoe molding to cover gaps between the baseboard and flooring.

It's not the answer you want to hear, but go for the single piece scribed in place. It will look so much better in the end, and really be another tier that showcase your woodworking skills - Sure it will be a lot of extra work, on such a small piece - But it's usually the littlest things that make the biggest difference!

[iSawitFirst]

Why don't you put a keystone in the center? That would allow a two-piece crown.

Or better yet, a bas relief of Marc. Yea, that's the ticket.

[Lawrence Brown]

If the problem is that you can't get the big piece in place to scribe it, you could cut two short pieces from the same moulding, maybe 6 inches long, one for each end. bring them up, scribe them, and cut them so they fit just like you would do with the long piece. Once you have those two ends fitted in perfectly, put them in place and mark the other ends on the wall or ceiling or whatever.

Now you have a template for each end. Just measure the distance between the two marks and then place those two templates the correct distance apart on the final piece. This way you can do all the scribing and cutting of the actual piece at ground level. It could get a bit tricky, but if you take it slow, it should work.

[Bobby Slack]

Is the crown stain or solid color finish? If it is solid you can cut it in half and with a scarf joint you will never tell it was put together.

[Vic]

That's what I was suggesting. I just guess I could have elaborated more fully.

If the problem is that you can't get the big piece in place to scribe it, you could cut two short pieces from the same moulding, maybe 6 inches long, one for each end. bring them up, scribe them, and cut them so they fit just like you would do with the long piece. Once you have those two ends fitted in perfectly, put them in place and mark the other ends on the wall or ceiling or whatever.

Now you have a template for each end. Just measure the distance between the two marks and then place those two templates the correct distance apart on the final piece. This way you can do all the scribing and cutting of the actual piece at ground level. It could get a bit tricky, but if you take it slow, it should work.

[Jerry_in_SD]

It's Cherry, unfortunately.

Is the crown stain or solid color finish? If it is solid you can cut it in half and with a scarf joint you will never tell it was put together.

[Lawrence Brown]

That's what I was suggesting. I just guess I could have elaborated more fully.

Ahh, yes. So you were Yeah, what Vic said!

[Juicegoose]

pardon my ignorance but how exactly do you scribe something to a wall. The wife wants me to put in some cabinets in the utility room over the weekend and my plan was the leave a little extra on the face frame edging so i could scribe it to a wall. I was under the assumtion that you just take a compass and run it along the wall. Last weekend while building my miter saw station i tried to scribe my top to the wall and couldn't get it to work right. Any advice or links to a vid showing proper way to scribe a cabinet or anything for that matter would be great.

[Lawrence Brown]

Ah, sorry if it was a bit confusing. We may have left out part of the process. The reason for "scribing" something is to get it to fit an irregular surface. In this case, it would be fitting the sides of the face frame to fit the profiles of the walls. The confusing part may be that you would porbably have to do this before you cut the face frame pieces to final dimension, since you are going to lose some material. This is more often done with things like toe kicks where you are just attacking another board to the bottom front of the cabinet.

Anyway, try this on a piece of scrap:

Take a board and put it against the wall. Make sure it is level vertically and hold it in place somehow. Now take the compass that you were talking about and run the point down the wall while keeping the pencil part on the board. How wide you have it set doesn't really matter, but the wider the points, the more of the board you are going to lose. It only has to be wide enough to not run off the board. (don't let it twist or rotate. Just keep it level as it slides down) Now you have a profile of all the bumps and curves of the wall on the board.

You would then take a jig saw or whatever and cut on that line. If you did everything right, now you can press that board up against the wall and it will fit with all those bumps and curves and not have any gap. In this case, the trick is that you've now made the board narrower, so you will have to make it fit in with the rest of the frame and also be the right width to still fit in correctly within that space.

This is really more for things like uneven floors or for a really wonky wall that might have gobs of plaster or other things sticking out. This would also work for going around things like pipes and so on. If your walls are fairly flat and just at an angle or something, you can probably just get by with carefully measuring at the bottom, top, middle, and so on.

In the case we were talking about here, where one piece of molding is going to be 90 degrees to the other one, it's just an easy way of getting the profile of that second piece of moulding onto the first one so that it can be cut to fit. You still have to figure out what the overall length of the piece is going to be.

Hehe, after all that typing, it would probably make more sense to send you here:

scribing

They have a good picture that explains things clearer than all my talking

[Jerry_in_SD]

I also do maybe a 2-3 degree back bevel to assure a tight fit against the wall. I just tilt the saw base just so slightly.

Ah, sorry if it was a bit confusing. We may have left out part of the process. The reason for "scribing" something is to get it to fit an irregular surface. In this case, it would be fitting the sides of the face frame to fit the profiles of the walls. The confusing part may be that you would porbably have to do this before you cut the face frame pieces to final dimension, since you are going to lose some material. This is more often done with things like toe kicks where you are just attacking another board to the bottom front of the cabinet.

Anyway, try this on a piece of scrap:

Take a board and put it against the wall. Make sure it is level vertically and hold it in place somehow. Now take the compass that you were talking about and run the point down the wall while keeping the pencil part on the board. How wide you have it set doesn't really matter, but the wider the points, the more of the board you are going to lose. It only has to be wide enough to not run off the board. (don't let it twist or rotate. Just keep it level as it slides down) Now you have a profile of all the bumps and curves of the wall on the board.

You would then take a jig saw or whatever and cut on that line. If you did everything right, now you can press that board up against the wall and it will fit with all those bumps and curves and not have any gap. In this case, the trick is that you've now made the board narrower, so you will have to make it fit in with the rest of the frame and also be the right width to still fit in correctly within that space.

This is really more for things like uneven floors or for a really wonky wall that might have gobs of plaster or other things sticking out. This would also work for going around things like pipes and so on. If your walls are fairly flat and just at an angle or something, you can probably just get by with carefully measuring at the bottom, top, middle, and so on.

In the case we were talking about here, where one piece of molding is going to be 90 degrees to the other one, it's just an easy way of getting the profile of that second piece of moulding onto the first one so that it can be cut to fit. You still have to figure out what the overall length of the piece is going to be.

Hehe, after all that typing, it would probably make more sense to send you here:

scribing

They have a good picture that explains things clearer than all my talking

[Juicegoose]

Ah thanks a lot after reading the post and going to the link I can see my problem was not keeping the compass in the right position. Additionally I have been using my old drafting compass that has alot of knobs down on the point for adjustmen and think it was hurting also. Thanks guys.