Card Scrapers

[protectedvoid]

Okay, I've watched several videos on how to sharpen these things. I've gotten the burr (I can feel it with my fingernail), and I *think* I've burnished it correctly. When I push it, I get actual shavings that form nice tight little rolls. If I try to stretch them out, they do tend to tear and fall apart, but I've at least confirmed they're not just sawdust. The surface of my panels turns out smooth and flat, and overall, the grain has a consistent appearance and, as far as I can tell, no tear out.

My question is, why doesn't the surface of the panel feel as smooth it does when I use the #4 smoothing plane on it? Don't get me wrong, it's smooth, and has a nice, even consistency in it's feel and appearance, but it lacks that silky smooth touch and sheen that the #4 seems to leave.

I figure I must be doing something wrong...but I'll be damned if I know what it is.

Any thoughts?

[JerrySats]

I don't think your doing anything wrong the way you burnish your card scraper . I'll just go out on a limb and say the reason your getting a smoother surface your #4 is do to the fine edge of blade iron cutting the fibers of the wood .

Try different angles with the scrapper and see how that works for you .

[muddlermike]

One thing to consider is what kind of wood is it - higher figure woods with funky grain like a walnut burl won't smooth down as well as a straight grain wood like cherry. What makes the figure is waves of semi-end grain and such. Those fibers going in an upward direction are like pockets of end grain and often won't smooth down as well as the straight grain areas. High iron cutting angles and scraping helps to shear the fibers, but it's still little bits of semi-end grain. Sometimes .... and it hurts to say it...... sandpaper works the best.

[Vic]

It could also be what grit you're using to get it flat. The finer the grit the more consistent the edge of the burr will be. But, like Mikey says, sometimes you just have to go with the sandpaper. It's killing me, cause I HATE dust.

[protectedvoid]

One thing to consider is what kind of wood is it - higher figure woods with funky grain like a walnut burl won't smooth down as well as a straight grain wood like cherry. What makes the figure is waves of semi-end grain and such. Those fibers going in an upward direction are like pockets of end grain and often won't smooth down as well as the straight grain areas. High iron cutting angles and scraping helps to shear the fibers, but it's still little bits of semi-end grain. Sometimes .... and it hurts to say it...... sandpaper works the best.

Well, it is Jotoba. I wouldn't say it's "figured", but it definitely has those pockets of wavy grain and swirl. Even with the #4 smoother, there are still small sections that aren't "perfectly" smooth. What's weird is that the #4 does manage to leave that satiny-low gloss finish on most of the surface, though you can see the areas that aren't the same "smoothness". The card scraper, on the other hand, gets the surface smooth. Not "satin", but smooth. However, the card scraper leaves the surface much more consistent in visual appearance. In other words, there aren't areas that are shiny and areas that aren't. They are all "dull", for lack of a better word.

As far as the scraper goes, I start with a mill file (fine), then use a 750 grit diamond stone, then 1500 grit sandpaper on granite substrate. Then, I use a honing steel to burnish the burr.

I'll try to post some pics of the jotoba to show the difference.

[PaulMarcel]

Maybe I'm lazy, but I just use the mill file followed by the Veritas burnisher. Works great. Only use the mill file when I can't get a nice bur from the burnisher. I've never had a scraped surface look shiney. Like Jerry and Mike said, the difference is in cutting at a lower angle (#4) vs a pretty steep angle (scraper). That you're getting curls is great. I honestly rarely got them until I got a decent burnisher.

[protectedvoid]

Maybe I'm lazy, but I just use the mill file followed by the Veritas burnisher. Works great. Only use the mill file when I can't get a nice bur from the burnisher. I've never had a scraped surface look shiney. Like Jerry and Mike said, the difference is in cutting at a lower angle (#4) vs a pretty steep angle (scraper). That you're getting curls is great. I honestly rarely got them until I got a decent burnisher.

I don't think you're lazy. I went the extra step because I couldn't figure out what I might be doing wrong. That 1500grit wet/dry does leave a nice polished edge those surfaces though.

Also, I got/used that .5 micron micro-abrasive paper. Pretty neat stuff. Though you can't feel the grit, I was able to tell a *slight* difference in the edge of the plane iron. There are, of course, a couple things. First, I read somewhere that an 8000 grit Norton stone was the approximate equivalent to 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper. I don't know if that's true or not, but I had been able to get a very sharp edge going up to 2000 grit wet/dry. So, when I got the .5 micron stuff, I went straight from the 2000 grit to .5 micron, and I'm thinking that the difference wasn't *quite* as much, as far as overall sharpness / polish as you might expect, although, like I said, I could tell a *slight* difference in the way the smoother cut on this Jotoba before / after using the .5 micron stuff.

That being said, I think there would actually be more benefit in going from 2000 wet/dry up to 3000 or 4000 wet/dry first, and then put the final gleaming polish on using the .5 micron stuff. You just have to make sure it is COMPLETELY flat. And I do mean COMPLETELY. At that fine of a hone, even a slight elevation in the mylar's surface will let the plane blade slice right through it. I was using a granite substrate, and relying on a thin coat of water to adhere the paper to it (which it did). I had a small air bubble though, and that was just enough to allow the leading edge of the plane iron to slice right through and leave a 2" wide slit in that strip.

I bought 10 sheets at once, so I got them for $1.85 each. I think they were worth it in the short term...but I'll likely look at getting an 8000 and 12000 grit Naniwa superstone when I have the money. In the long run, they will probably have a better ROI.

In the interim, I will definitely be ordering some 3000 / 4000 wet-dry paper sheets.

A poor man pays twice, don't ya know.

[Vic]

I don't think you're lazy. I went the extra step because I couldn't figure out what I might be doing wrong. That 1500grit wet/dry does leave a nice polished edge those surfaces though.

Also, I got/used that .5 micron micro-abrasive paper. Pretty neat stuff. Though you can't feel the grit, I was able to tell a *slight* difference in the edge of the plane iron. There are, of course, a couple things. First, I read somewhere that an 8000 grit Norton stone was the approximate equivalent to 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper. I don't know if that's true or not, but I had been able to get a very sharp edge going up to 2000 grit wet/dry. So, when I got the .5 micron stuff, I went straight from the 2000 grit to .5 micron, and I'm thinking that the difference wasn't *quite* as much, as far as overall sharpness / polish as you might expect, although, like I said, I could tell a *slight* difference in the way the smoother cut on this Jotoba before / after using the .5 micron stuff.

That being said, I think there would actually be more benefit in going from 2000 wet/dry up to 3000 or 4000 wet/dry first, and then put the final gleaming polish on using the .5 micron stuff. You just have to make sure it is COMPLETELY flat. And I do mean COMPLETELY. At that fine of a hone, even a slight elevation in the mylar's surface will let the plane blade slice right through it. I was using a granite substrate, and relying on a thin coat of water to adhere the paper to it (which it did). I had a small air bubble though, and that was just enough to allow the leading edge of the plane iron to slice right through and leave a 2" wide slit in that strip.

I bought 10 sheets at once, so I got them for $1.85 each. I think they were worth it in the short term...but I'll likely look at getting an 8000 and 12000 grit Naniwa superstone when I have the money. In the long run, they will probably have a better ROI.

In the interim, I will definitely be ordering some 3000 / 4000 wet-dry paper sheets.

A poor man pays twice, don't ya know.

That's why on sand paper, you only apply pressure on the pull stroke.

[protectedvoid]

That's why on sand paper, you only apply pressure on the pull stroke.

Yep...but I, uh, didn't "lift" the plane iron on the push stroke when I rolled the honing guide forward, and -- *slit* -- I'm just glad my finger wasn't there.