Trip Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 ==> I returned the kapex it was ok but not tight enough for cabinet doors. so you went with TS2.2? I see the 2A and 2B, but can't find that one... ==> The 3hp omga's are not even close to $5k somebody was blowing smoke. The heavy duty OMGA belt-drives are around $5K for the saw alone and a grand more in options/accessories... The TS53 alone lists for $5200, but it's a 4HP... The 3HPs are around $3,500 --- but by the time you add the accessories to the 3HP heavy duty saws, they are certainly up there as well... I don't see the model my contractors used (but this was around seven years ago), but it was a $2.2M cleanroom job, so in the big scheme of things, the cost of the saws wasn't much of an issue But that kind of cost was certainly an issue for a home hobby shop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 ==> I returned the kapex it was ok but not tight enough for cabinet doors. so you went with TS2.2? I see the 2A and 2B, but can't find that one... ==> The 3hp omga's are not even close to $5k somebody was blowing smoke. The heavy duty OMGA belt-drives are around $5K for the saw alone and a grand more in options/accessories... The TS53 alone lists for $5200, but it's a 4HP... The 3HPs are around $3,500 --- but by the time you add the accessories to the 3HP heavy duty saws, they are certainly up there as well... I don't see the model my contractors used (but this was around seven years ago), but it was a $2.2M cleanroom job, so in the big scheme of things, the cost of the saws wasn't much of an issue But that kind of cost was certainly an issue for a home hobby shop... I went with the mec300 2.2hp single phase. It's just a miter only saw no frills induction saw cuts perfect 45s every time. Really just bought it for doors. Half the time it's on loan to my son in law. Table saw is plenty for most cut but for perfect cuts quickly the thing can't be beat. I would have kept the kapex if it would have been consistent enough for doors, no such luck. I can think of a half dozen shops that gave the kapex a test drive that returned and bought omga's. Some are running doubles and that is ideal but space is an issue for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 ==> Some are running doubles I saw those double setups -- that must be sweet for doors... ==> I can think of a half dozen shops that gave the kapex a test drive that returned and bought omga's. I can really see that... As I mentioned before, it's certainly the most 'fragile' of my stationary workstations... I'm pretty tight for space at the moment and have occasional 'stock-related' bumps -- I do wonder about the Kapex and its ability to absorb a 'small-slip' with an 8' stick of 8/4 hard maple. I'm far more careful shifting stock around the Kapex than any other workstation (except for the bench when I haven't put my hand tools away). I got a similar vibe for aftermarket TS DROs -- one small slip and it's game over... I wonder how something like the Kapex fairs in the field -- it just seems a bit more fragile than the Bosch or Makita offerings... The couple site guys I know use the Bosch. ==> I would have kept the kapex if it would have been consistent enough for doors I can see that as well -- it 'deflects' more then i'd like on some cuts... Not often enough for me to find an alternate saw, but it does happen a bit more then i'd like -- more often on angled cuts and with a bit of tension in the stick... When it's a critical cut, I do it in two passes to suss-out any stock issues... To quote Charles Niel, "Sneak-up On It"... For a commercial shop, that would be a complete waste of time --- in a hobby shop, the extra step is acceptable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodNoob Posted September 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 This is a great discussion. Regarding whether it's my technique or the quality of the saw. Well, I'd never say never, but I'm pretty sure it's not me. I will clamp the work down, bring the saw down and touch the teeth to the line, front and back to check - often at this stage I have to adjust the angle a touch because it's already showing a little out. But otherwise then I'll turn it on, wait a couple of seconds, bring it down slowly and touch the line again just to make sure it hasn't shifted because of the huge jolt when it takes off. Then I'll usually cut through a 1" board or even a half inch in a couple of passes rather than full depth straight away. I'll sometimes take 3 or four passes to sneak up on it to not put too much pressure on the blade. But still not perfect. I'm a VERY lightweight user - it sits in my shop and has been used very little. Never gets moved. Does light duty, no treated timber. No stumps etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 When you miter doors do you reinforce at all or just glue? Are mitered doors considered an upgrade? Just curious because i do not see them much but I like the look more. Hoffman dovetails sometimes dowels. Yes they are an upgrade. Lots more face profile options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 IMO the right tool for the job is a table saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Okay, After reading this I had to run to my shop and check. I have an older Hitachi12 SCMS. If you see the one's with Darker colors grey and green, I believe those are the older ones made in Japan. If you see the lighter colored green and lighter grey that means they are the newer ones made in China. ... I think that's true for all Hitachi saws, maybe somebody can confirm that. Anyway, Over the years I have adjusted mine several times, but I ran out and cut an 8" wide board and as best I can tell it was dead on 90.I had a bit of tear-out but not awful considering the blade has needed to be resharpened for some time now. I also quickly gut a 45 degree. I turned the cut-off around and stuck the 2 pieces together to make a 90. It looked pretty dead on as well. So, I smiled. I also like that this slider has the option for the pipes forward (like the Festool). It takes up a lot less room behind the saw. I also have a 25 year old Craftsman 10" cms, not a slider. That son of a gun is always dead on. I can't seem to screw it up. I toss it in my trunk or back of my truck, that darn saw is the energizer bunny. I do take good care of my tools, but I think I've been pretty lucky on these two. They are the only 2 miter saws of any kind I've ever owned. So I've got that going for me... which is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 ==> It must be frustrating to be off by 1/32" over a 6" board. I suppose it depends on the cut... Two months ago, I made eight sets of Chippendale chest feet -- that's 64 mitered half-foot components in figured hard maple... The stock was a custom cove profile I spent an entire afternoon milling, very very hard (for maple) and not a hell-of-a-lot extra stock to make replacements... Now, any deflection in the cuts will be very visible along the six-inch miter-glue-line that follows the profile... I did these on my Kapex and for the most part, went quite well... The cuts involved swinging the saw through the -45, 90 and 45 degree detents for one complete foot assembly... However, there is some deflection in the saw and about sixteen half-foot components had to be re-cut or corrected on the disk sander prior to glue-up... Now for a hobby-shop, that's OK --- a little annoying perhaps, but OK... But if I was paying the bills with my shop-time, it would have been unacceptable... I should have done this on the TS -- I knew that at the time --- but my miter-sled was out of commission, so had to make do... Point is, the precision required in the cuts is relative to what you are doing... for some 1/32 is fine... for others 1/64 is too much... For me, the Kapex delivers the required accuracy/repeat-ability 90%+ of the time -- 99% of the time with a freshly sharpened blade... As compared to the lower-than acceptable performance (for my projects) with the DeWalt and Bosch, which it replaced... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Anyway, Over the years I have adjusted mine several times, but I ran out and cut an 8" wide board and as best I can tell it was dead on 90.I had a bit of tear-out but not awful considering the blade has needed to be resharpened for some time now. I also quickly gut a 45 degree. I turned the cut-off around and stuck the 2 pieces together to make a 90. It looked pretty dead on as well. So, I smiled. I also like that this slider has the option for the pipes forward (like the Festool). It takes up a lot less room behind the saw. . That will only tell you how close you are over the width of a board. So if your building 8" square boxes you're good but if you're building 36" face frames you may be out of square quite a ways. To check the accuracy of any saw you want to check accuracy over the length of the boards x2 that you are working with. For example if you are doing kitchen cabinets and you want accuracy over 36" x2. Rip two strips of mdf 6" wide at least 36" long. Make your cross cuts, flip but stand on end not on the length. Look for the gap at the other end off the board. You can do the same with miter cuts except you make both cuts off the same side of the blade. Flip one piece. Lay on a long flat surface or against a accurate straight edge with the joint closed. The end of one board will have a gap between the table and end of board if your off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 PB, Yes, of course you are correct about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think there should be a PB room on the forum. I love to see the information an tips he puts out, and i am sure we dont realize how many people he has helped since sometimes we dont want to admit we have run into a tricky area on a project. Excellent information! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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