Another Tool Gloat


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So, after a couple months of unsuccessful bidding wars on ebay for a #7 jointer plane, I finally managed to snag a Type 9 Stanley Bailey No. 7 jointer plane with all original parts, no broken or cracked knob / tote, 2 patent dates behind the frog: Mar 25 02 and Aug 19 02. It's in excellent condition, albeit with some minor rust. About 85% of original japanning still in good condition. Can't wait to get started cleaning this bad boy up!!

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That one's in good shape. Looks like it was hardly ever used.

Yeah, from the ebay photos, it looked pretty good. The photos of the patent dates is what really sold me to stick it out for this one. I removed the frog, and there was quite a bit of sawdust under there, mixed with oil and dirt, or so that's how it appeared. Off all the planes I've gotten off ebay, I think I'm going to enjoy cleaning this one up the most.

Very nice, I have gotten a few planes off of ebay myself and had great luck! Have fun jointing up a storm!

Nate

I'm definitely looking forward to using it, to be sure. The extra 4" over the #6 I have is definitely going to be handy. :)

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I can't believe the condition on this. That will take no time to clean up and be put into service. Do you think the blade will work too, or are you thinking about a modern, thicker replacement?

Honestly, I think the existing blade will work pretty well. Whoever used this last definitely showed this plane some love. Check it out:

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Nice! how's the chip breaker to iron connection? Saw the profile and it looked very promising. Nice score. Very nice score.

I think just a little polishing on some sandpaper over granite will smooth out any "imperfections" along the mating edge caused by the little bit of rust. Once that's done, It should have a good clean connection. I almost feel a little guilty about this find. I knew when I saw the patent dates in his photos that this was potentially a solid find. I had no idea it would be in such good condition. The guy even ate $4 in shipping to send it to me.

To make up for it, I'm going to clean this baby up nice and give it lots and lots of love over the years. :)

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As a newbie just starting to enjoy hand planes i have to ask a few questions. First the blade tip looks slightly arched do you want that on a jointer? Second im still cleaning up an old millers falls 9-1/2 and im wondering how flat the bottom needs to get? I have laid 600 grit sandpaper on my table saw top and scrubbed away the bulk and i would say 90% of the bottom is shinny but i cant get it to plane smoothly. Is it all in the blade? And lastly what other than obvious picture condition told you this was a good find? I have no clue what im looking for in a plane. By the way that is a sweet plane!

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As a newbie just starting to enjoy hand planes i have to ask a few questions. First the blade tip looks slightly arched do you want that on a jointer? Second im still cleaning up an old millers falls 9-1/2 and im wondering how flat the bottom needs to get? I have laid 600 grit sandpaper on my table saw top and scrubbed away the bulk and i would say 90% of the bottom is shinny but i cant get it to plane smoothly. Is it all in the blade? And lastly what other than obvious picture condition told you this was a good find? I have no clue what im looking for in a plane. By the way that is a sweet plane!

Well, first let me state that I, myself, and relatively new to hand tools. The last time I used hand planes was probably 20 years ago. Life has a funny way of intervening, so I'm just getting started back into woodworking. There are many on these forums that can give you far superior insight than I can on hand tools. That being said, I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

The arch on the blade is commonly referred to as "camber". The primary intent of a cambered blade is to allow you to make shavings that gradually taper in thickness on their left and right edge as you plane the surface of a board. This creates slightly concaved areas in the surface of your board, that, as you overlap while planing, results in a smooth top without track marks (or channel marks, or grooves in the surface) caused the corners of the plane iron. While my understanding is there is no hard / fast rule on cambers, it is generally excepted that if you do not camber the iron, you should, at the very least, round the corners of the plane iron to prevent the corners from digging in. As for having a camber on a jointer, the answer is, "it depends". Typically, having a cambered iron allows you to attack the parts of a joint that are not 90° to the face while planing. For instance, if you are jointing the edge of a board, an iron that is "flat" will take shavings that conform to whatever angle the edge happens to be. So, if the edge of your board is say, 80° to the face (out of square) - a flat iron requires that you must angle the whole plane in order to get back to square. A cambered iron simply allows you to move the plane left or right and remove more stock from that part of the edge, without affecting the rest, allowing you to return back to square in fewer strokes, and without holding your wrist at an awkward angle. Not to mention, if it's a particularly long piece of stock, you're relying on your ability to maintain the same angle the entire length of the board...which is difficult to do with such a heavy plane. Of course, there are jointer fences out there that will help you square the edges to a face, assuming the face is flat and square itself. In those cases, or when using a shooting board, a flat iron is probably preferred. Since I haven't completed my bench and shooting board yet, I'll leave the iron cambered. Once I have my shooting board, I'll probably flatten the camber out of the blade and simply add a very slight camber to each corner, just to prevent them from digging in.

As far as the bottoms are concerned. You first need to make sure the sole is 90° to both sides. If not, then you'll have extra work to do to get it back to square. Assuming that your sole is 90° to each side (square), then work on the sole is pretty straight forward. First, if your table saw top is true and flat, that is as good a surface as any. I used a large piece of scrap granite as the flat surface. However, using 600 grit paper will take you forever. Here's my process (and it's all done by hand, no power tools) restoring the old Stanley hand planes.

I start with 120 grit Drywall screen. They're relatively inexpensive and can be found at any hardware store. They're not as long as a #6 or #7 plane, so I usually attach two of them to a couple pieces of 60grit that have been adhered to the granite. This keeps the screens from moving as "plane" the screen with your hand plane. These screens are pretty aggressive at removing material. The goal is to get a consistent scratch pattern along the ENTIRE bottom of your plane using the 120 grit screens. Because you are planing the screens on a true-flat surface (and the screens are pretty darn flat themselves, especially when you plane against them and force them flat), the scratch pattern will show you where any high spots are in the sole of your plane. You'll want to pause periodically to blow out the debris from the screens to ensure you don't get any deep gouge marks. Once you have a consistent scratch pattern on the entire bottom surface of the plane, STOP. You've reached the point where the sole is consistently flat across it's entire bottom. The surface should appear relatively uniform and have a consistent scratch pattern. From here, now that the sole is flat, you can begin "finishing" the surface. From the 120 grit, I typically go to 220, planing in a slightly different direction so I can see the results of the new scratch pattern. From 220 I go to 400 grit, again, planing in a slightly different direction. From 400 I go to 600 wet/dry and add a touch of water. Just enough to dampen the sole's surface. From 600 grit, I'll take several laps on 800 grit, then finish up with 1500 grit for a nice polish. I don't worry about going any higher than that. Then, I'll make sure the plane is completely clean and dry, using WD40 to oil the metal a bit to protect against moisture. Then, before I use a plane each time, I take a tea candle and use the wax to make a lazy "S" on the sole of the plane. It allows the plane to glide over the stock relatively easily.

As for getting yours to plane "smoothly", there are several factors. First, you absolutely need a sharp iron. Here's a couple links for the "Scary Sharp" method, which is the way I sharpen my irons:

Blog

Second, the cap iron (or chip breaker) should mate flat with the plane iron, so you may also need to flatten the cap iron to the proper angle so that when it's attached to the plane iron, it makes a perfectly flat connection. It sounds tougher than it is. Just takes a bit of practice to know the right angle. Once you have sharp iron, and a properly mated cap iron, you just need to set the proper depth-of-cut, how far the iron projects below the sole of the plane. There's actually quite a bit that goes into setting up a plane to take perfect shavings, so I recommend you do some googling and check out some of the videos from Lie-Nielson or some of the other members here. The nice thing is that, typically, once you've set up your plane the first time, you shouldn't have to mess with it, unless you need to reconfigure it for more aggressive, or more fine cuts.

As for what to look for, I can only tell you about the Stanley planes. I am not interested in any planes made after WWII as it is widely accepted that the quality of the Stanley planes made before WWII were of far superior craftsmanship. So, using the Stanley Plane Type Study Dating Flowchart I was able to learn more about the features and patent dates and materials that indicate roughly when the planes were manufactured. So, for this plane, the first thing that gave away it's type were the patent dates stamped behind the frog receiver in the bed. Those two dates indicate it was produced just after the turn of the century. Secondly, the type of wood and the shape of the knob (with beading, without beading, is it a high knob or a low knob shaped like a hot air balloon) can also indicate when it was manufactured, with the caveat that it could have been replaced. Third, the size and shape of the iron depth adjuster is another indicator. Fourth, where the Plane # is positioned in the bed of the plane, where the words "Bailey" or "Made in the USA" appear. Also, whether the frog has an adjustment screw can be a good indicator.

After that, you look for the amount of rust and whether the plane has any pitting in the metal that might indicate more severe metal degradation. Light rust is generally okay. Heavier rust could be hiding more severe damage. Next, if they've provided a shot of the sole of the plane that shows the mouth clearly, you want to check and be sure that it appears reasonably square, with no obvious gouges, nicks, or pitting. Next, see if you notice any visible cracks in the knob or tote. Sometimes they're glaringly obvious, sometimes not. After that, it's usually helpful (for me) to check the state of the japanning of the plane. It's not a real indicator of anything other than how well the plane may have been taken care of. I usually strip all of it off and re-japan it anyhow to put a fresh layer of protection down, free of contaminants.

Anyway, that's my process. If I can visibly see the patent dates, then I look for the condition of the metal, the mouth, and the totes. If those are all in good shape, and the bid amount is still relatively low, then I go for it. Typically, if it's someone who knows what they've got and are asking premium dollar for it on ebay, I avoid those. I'm looking to get out as cheaply as possible. If I were going to pay a premium, I'd go straight for the Veritas hand planes. Usually, I find the ones where the plane meets all my requirements, but it's the result of an estate auction, or someone cleaning out an old barn or workshop and doesn't know or care. I want to give the handplanes a good home where they'll be loved and appreciated and well cared for, and most importantly, put to use. :)

Hopefully that answers all your questions. Verbose, I know..but you asked a lot of really good questions.

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Well, first let me state that I, myself, and relatively new to hand tools. The last time I used hand planes was probably 20 years ago. Life has a funny way of intervening, so I'm just getting started back into woodworking. There are many on these forums that can give you far superior insight than I can on hand tools. That being said, I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

The arch on the blade is commonly referred to as "camber". The primary intent of a cambered blade is to allow you to make shavings that gradually taper in thickness on their left and right edge as you plane the surface of a board. This creates slightly concaved areas in the surface of your board, that, as you overlap while planing, results in a smooth top without track marks (or channel marks, or grooves in the surface) caused the corners of the plane iron. While my understanding is there is no hard / fast rule on cambers, it is generally excepted that if you do not camber the iron, you should, at the very least, round the corners of the plane iron to prevent the corners from digging in. As for having a camber on a jointer, the answer is, "it depends". Typically, having a cambered iron allows you to attack the parts of a joint that are not 90° to the face while planing. For instance, if you are jointing the edge of a board, an iron that is "flat" will take shavings that conform to whatever angle the edge happens to be. So, if the edge of your board is say, 80° to the face (out of square) - a flat iron requires that you must angle the whole plane in order to get back to square. A cambered iron simply allows you to move the plane left or right and remove more stock from that part of the edge, without affecting the rest, allowing you to return back to square in fewer strokes, and without holding your wrist at an awkward angle. Not to mention, if it's a particularly long piece of stock, you're relying on your ability to maintain the same angle the entire length of the board...which is difficult to do with such a heavy plane. Of course, there are jointer fences out there that will help you square the edges to a face, assuming the face is flat and square itself. In those cases, or when using a shooting board, a flat iron is probably preferred. Since I haven't completed my bench and shooting board yet, I'll leave the iron cambered. Once I have my shooting board, I'll probably flatten the camber out of the blade and simply add a very slight camber to each corner, just to prevent them from digging in.

As far as the bottoms are concerned. You first need to make sure the sole is 90° to both sides. If not, then you'll have extra work to do to get it back to square. Assuming that your sole is 90° to each side (square), then work on the sole is pretty straight forward. First, if your table saw top is true and flat, that is as good a surface as any. I used a large piece of scrap granite as the flat surface. However, using 600 grit paper will take you forever. Here's my process (and it's all done by hand, no power tools) restoring the old Stanley hand planes.

I start with 120 grit Drywall screen. They're relatively inexpensive and can be found at any hardware store. They're not as long as a #6 or #7 plane, so I usually attach two of them to a couple pieces of 60grit that have been adhered to the granite. This keeps the screens from moving as "plane" the screen with your hand plane. These screens are pretty aggressive at removing material. The goal is to get a consistent scratch pattern along the ENTIRE bottom of your plane using the 120 grit screens. Because you are planing the screens on a true-flat surface (and the screens are pretty darn flat themselves, especially when you plane against them and force them flat), the scratch pattern will show you where any high spots are in the sole of your plane. You'll want to pause periodically to blow out the debris from the screens to ensure you don't get any deep gouge marks. Once you have a consistent scratch pattern on the entire bottom surface of the plane, STOP. You've reached the point where the sole is consistently flat across it's entire bottom. The surface should appear relatively uniform and have a consistent scratch pattern. From here, now that the sole is flat, you can begin "finishing" the surface. From the 120 grit, I typically go to 220, planing in a slightly different direction so I can see the results of the new scratch pattern. From 220 I go to 400 grit, again, planing in a slightly different direction. From 400 I go to 600 wet/dry and add a touch of water. Just enough to dampen the sole's surface. From 600 grit, I'll take several laps on 800 grit, then finish up with 1500 grit for a nice polish. I don't worry about going any higher than that. Then, I'll make sure the plane is completely clean and dry, using WD40 to oil the metal a bit to protect against moisture. Then, before I use a plane each time, I take a tea candle and use the wax to make a lazy "S" on the sole of the plane. It allows the plane to glide over the stock relatively easily.

As for getting yours to plane "smoothly", there are several factors. First, you absolutely need a sharp iron. Here's a couple links for the "Scary Sharp" method, which is the way I sharpen my irons:

Blog

Second, the cap iron (or chip breaker) should mate flat with the plane iron, so you may also need to flatten the cap iron to the proper angle so that when it's attached to the plane iron, it makes a perfectly flat connection. It sounds tougher than it is. Just takes a bit of practice to know the right angle. Once you have sharp iron, and a properly mated cap iron, you just need to set the proper depth-of-cut, how far the iron projects below the sole of the plane. There's actually quite a bit that goes into setting up a plane to take perfect shavings, so I recommend you do some googling and check out some of the videos from Lie-Nielson or some of the other members here. The nice thing is that, typically, once you've set up your plane the first time, you shouldn't have to mess with it, unless you need to reconfigure it for more aggressive, or more fine cuts.

As for what to look for, I can only tell you about the Stanley planes. I am not interested in any planes made after WWII as it is widely accepted that the quality of the Stanley planes made before WWII were of far superior craftsmanship. So, using the Stanley Plane Type Study Dating Flowchart I was able to learn more about the features and patent dates and materials that indicate roughly when the planes were manufactured. So, for this plane, the first thing that gave away it's type were the patent dates stamped behind the frog receiver in the bed. Those two dates indicate it was produced just after the turn of the century. Secondly, the type of wood and the shape of the knob (with beading, without beading, is it a high knob or a low knob shaped like a hot air balloon) can also indicate when it was manufactured, with the caveat that it could have been replaced. Third, the size and shape of the iron depth adjuster is another indicator. Fourth, where the Plane # is positioned in the bed of the plane, where the words "Bailey" or "Made in the USA" appear. Also, whether the frog has an adjustment screw can be a good indicator.

After that, you look for the amount of rust and whether the plane has any pitting in the metal that might indicate more severe metal degradation. Light rust is generally okay. Heavier rust could be hiding more severe damage. Next, if they've provided a shot of the sole of the plane that shows the mouth clearly, you want to check and be sure that it appears reasonably square, with no obvious gouges, nicks, or pitting. Next, see if you notice any visible cracks in the knob or tote. Sometimes they're glaringly obvious, sometimes not. After that, it's usually helpful (for me) to check the state of the japanning of the plane. It's not a real indicator of anything other than how well the plane may have been taken care of. I usually strip all of it off and re-japan it anyhow to put a fresh layer of protection down, free of contaminants.

Anyway, that's my process. If I can visibly see the patent dates, then I look for the condition of the metal, the mouth, and the totes. If those are all in good shape, and the bid amount is still relatively low, then I go for it. Typically, if it's someone who knows what they've got and are asking premium dollar for it on ebay, I avoid those. I'm looking to get out as cheaply as possible. If I were going to pay a premium, I'd go straight for the Veritas hand planes. Usually, I find the ones where the plane meets all my requirements, but it's the result of an estate auction, or someone cleaning out an old barn or workshop and doesn't know or care. I want to give the handplanes a good home where they'll be loved and appreciated and well cared for, and most importantly, put to use. :)

Hopefully that answers all your questions. Verbose, I know..but you asked a lot of really good questions.

Thanks for all the good info! You answered all my questions and then some. I have seen the sand paper sharpening system before looks like it really works. I myself have a combo oil stone. Thanks again!

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