Shellac variety

[mlehikoinen]

Just getting into the world of shellac and picked up Vijay's video. Great process walk through on French Polishing! I'll definitely have to give it a try sometime.

But as to my question, what hues of shellac do you use with certain woods? I've heard that Platina or Super blonde are great for sealing the wood and then I've heard that using garnet or orange will help with popping the grain. Then I've heard that orange or garnet are great on mahogany or cherry.

Any thoughts on colour wood combos? It's soo confusing!

[protectedvoid]

To add to Mike's questions, what about "clear" shellac from Zinsser for sealing all wood varieties. I realize it's not water clear, but how do you know what LB cut it is? Also to thin, what's the difference between DeNatured Alcohol and S-L-X Denatured Alcohol?

[HoboMonk]

S-L-X Denatured Alcohol is only about 50% ethanol. The rest is methanol and other chemicals.

Ace Brand Denatured Alcohol is about 94% ethanol and is much better for use with shellac.

< former Clinical Chemist and Toxicologist >

[PaulMarcel]

S-L-X Denatured Alcohol is only about 50% ethanol. The rest is methanol and other chemicals.

Ace Brand Denatured Alcohol is about 94% ethanol and is much better for use with shellac.

< former Clinical Chemist and Toxicologist >

Interesting... good to know!

As for French Polish, I've heard good things about Rapid Pad.

[Bob Rozaieski]

There's no hard and fast rules on color really. All shellac has a yellow/golden tone to it. Even the super blonde. The color gets more amber/orange/brown as you go through the varieties. It always has an orange undertone though. If you want water clear, you don't want shellac.

If you want to color the shellac more, you can use dye additives. The only real way to get the color combination you want is to experiment. As with any other finishing product, the answer is test boards. Take cutoffs from your project boards and try out different finishing combinations BEFORE you apply anything to your project. Write down the steps, colors, products and ratios on the back side of each test board so that you can replicate it once you find a combination you like. If you start with a super blonde, it's easier to color than trying to predict what a particular dye will do to an orange or garnet shellac. I like to use the small disposable food containers to mix up small test batches. You can write the "recipe" for the finish on the lid so you know how you mixed each batch, you can make very small test batches so you don't have to waste a lot of product, and you don't contaminate the original container.

Actual cut is not really that important when brushing or padding. When spraying, it needs to be thin enough for the gun you are using. I believe the premixed stuff in a can is a 3 lb. cut. It is not dewaxed though (which may or may not be a problem for you depending on how you intend to use the product). I think the Seal Coat product is a 1 lb. cut and it is dewaxed.

[protectedvoid]

There's no hard and fast rules on color really. All shellac has a yellow/golden tone to it. Even the super blonde. The color gets more amber/orange/brown as you go through the varieties. It always has an orange undertone though. If you want water clear, you don't want shellac.

If you want to color the shellac more, you can use dye additives. The only real way to get the color combination you want is to experiment. As with any other finishing product, the answer is test boards. Take cutoffs from your project boards and try out different finishing combinations BEFORE you apply anything to your project. Write down the steps, colors, products and ratios on the back side of each test board so that you can replicate it once you find a combination you like. If you start with a super blonde, it's easier to color than trying to predict what a particular dye will do to an orange or garnet shellac. I like to use the small disposable food containers to mix up small test batches. You can write the "recipe" for the finish on the lid so you know how you mixed each batch, you can make very small test batches so you don't have to waste a lot of product, and you don't contaminate the original container.

Actual cut is not really that important when brushing or padding. When spraying, it needs to be thin enough for the gun you are using. I believe the premixed stuff in a can is a 3 lb. cut. It is not dewaxed though (which may or may not be a problem for you depending on how you intend to use the product). I think the Seal Coat product is a 1 lb. cut and it is dewaxed.

Can you give a use case for both Regular and DeWaxed Shellac? -- Maybe standard uses?

I, too, plan on getting Vijay's DVD in the near future, but until then, the more info, the better.

[Bob Rozaieski]

Can you give a use case for both Regular and DeWaxed Shellac? -- Maybe standard uses?

Honestly, I don't know what the standard uses would be. I like to buy my shellac in flake form and mix my own when I can. Sometimes I can't and I just use the regular stuff in a can.

Most flake shellac is already dewaxed. Dewaxed shellac dries harder and faster, and I'm told polishes up to a higher gloss when rubbed out than the waxed variety (because it dries harder). I don't know for sure as I've never done a comparison of polishing the two side by side. I usually rub out to a more satin sheen than a high gloss. It is also supposed to dry clearer, but I've never really noticed a difference visually. I've read that if you are topcoating over the shellac, you should use dewaxed. I've also read that it doesn't make a difference, so I don't really know. Again, I don't typically topcoat over the shellac, so I don't have first hand experience with this and don't know how important it is.

Regular (waxed) shellac seems to rub out easier. I'm presuming this is because the finish is softer due to the wax in it. Dewaxed is harder to rub out and clogs the sandpaper faster. Dewaxed also seems to resist water marks better after it is cured. Again, this is likely because the wax allows the cured finish to be more permeable.

If you're using the shellac as a finish coat, I don't think there's a real big difference. The regular stuff is cheaper than the dewaxed and can be bought premixed. I more or less just use whatever I have and don't give it a lot of thought as I try not to use really complex finishing schedules. Finishing is not one of my strong skills, so I try to keep it simple.

[AceHoleInOne]

I too have the same view of shellac as Bob. Don't over complicate it with the pound cut thing. If brushing, a thinner cut is better to brush on (more open time). Spraying, I like a stronger cut, because less coats are required, due to more "solids" If your going to tone your shellac with dye. Always tone to the weaker side. Each coat of a toned anything, lacquer, shellac, water-based will take you darker or more intense color. So if doing a test board, plan on taking it up to multiple coats. If I tone shellac for a base color, say for under stain. I use a 1/2 pound cut of de-waxed...that's just me.

-Ace-

More Pictures of Amber Shellac

[themrfreeze]

Lots of good info here. One thing I'll add is that if you tint the shellac, apply it in very thin coats (like #1 padded on). In my experience, you get a much nicer end product if you apply 20-30 very thin coats than if you try to rush things and apply just a few heavy coats. Shellac dries so fast that you can apply ~12 #1 coats in rapid fire succession before having to let it dry a bit.

As for dewaxed vs. waxed, I almost always use dewaxed because of its versatility. Accidentally bought a bag of waxed orange flakes, and used it as the final finish on a walnut cabinet I built (orange shellac looks great on walnut). The waxed shellac gave the cabinet a nice silky feel to it, which I've never experienced with dewaxed.

[protectedvoid]

This is really great stuff guys. I wonder if we could get a sticky up under finishing on the benefits of Waxed and Dewaxed, with photos / examples of each, kind of like what we've got going here.