Spunjin Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I have not experienced this until now. I have used GF Dye Stain before on several different projects involving different materials and the same methods prior to staining and finishing. I have used different finishes as well and never had an issue until now. I am refinishing my kitchen table top, it is a pine laminated top from IKEA that I purchased 7 years ago used before my wife and I got married. Now that we have 3 kids the top is scratched and dented so it was time to refinish it. I sanded through the grits to 220 and sealed with Bullseye SealCoat to control the blotching. Then I wiped on GF Light Brown Dye Stain and let it dry. When I went to seal the stain with shellac, the stain lifted right off the surface. Again, I have done this many times when staining and finishing my shop cabinets and refinishing a coffee table for a client. What changed? I don't get it. I restained and waited over night before applying shellac again thinking the stain didn't have enough time to bind. This time I sprayed the shellac. No problems until I put on a slightly heavier coat and then shellac lifted the stain up once again. How frustrating. Anyone have an experience like this with the dye stain? Is there a way to prevent this from happening in the future? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I don't have a lot of experience with dye stains or stains in general because it's against my religion...but I imagine a gel stain would be better to apply on top of a seal coat. GF dye stain is water based and probably works best when it's applied to raw wood. To help control blotching, wet the surface with water prior to applying the stain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunjin Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I see. I have used GF gel stain as well the same way no problem. I am working on solid wood. It is a laminate pine top. Not veneered. I guess I'll just keep my spray on a light setting and build up the finish. Spunjinworks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Pine is a sponge. What was on it before you started this project? Was it stained? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunjin Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Thank you, Mike. The tone in the shellac evens out some of the lifted stain but I will add some stain in the shellac on the next few coats. Spunjinworks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunjin Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Particle Board, there was a light brown stain and a thin coat of poly on top. I removed most of the finish with Soy Gel, scraped, and then sanded starting with 60 grit and worked my way up to 220. Spunjinworks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 What pound cut of shellac did you put down first to seal the table top? Was the shellac wiped or sprayed? Applied heavy or light? How many coats? -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunjin Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Diluted about 1/2 from the can and I wiped it on in one coat. It was pretty thin. Spunjinworks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Sounds more like you either did not get the factory sealer off or over sealed. If the factory was a UV its going to be deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunjin Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I probably didn't sand down enough. I just lightly hit it with 320 before staining. Spunjinworks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 The shellac you thinned by 50% was a 2 pound cut. So you actually put down about a 1 pound cut of seal. We like to use 1/2 pound cut as a sealer. Fine sanding with 320 will also act like a sealer...fine sanding will actually burnish the wood fibers reducing a stain/dye take. Since the piece is over sealed and when you applied your shellac over the dye stain. You re-wet and lifted the original shellac seal coat. Due to this piece being previously stained and topcoated and stripped. I doubt the wood is that thirsty to blotch. You probably would of been better off to wet the wood unsealed with water and applied the dyestain. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunjin Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Yeah, that's what I gathered. I will correct my error next time I have to use the dye stain. Spunjinworks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 If your up for trying something different GF RTM Clear Base thinned out works better than shellac for blotch control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunjin Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'll have to try that out. I can't get SealCoat locally so next time I hit Rockler or my lumber dealer I'll look it up. Thanks. Spunjinworks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weithman5 Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 i don't think i would have used the shellac prior to the dye. i would scrape off the base shellac/wipe down and scrape with alcohol prior to using the dye and use the dye directly on the pine. when i have tried to put dye on shellac it just sits on top. maybe if you really cut down the shellac as suggested above with alcohol and only use a single very thin coat it will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunjin Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 This is the result. Not too bad I think. I'll be sanding it for a nice smooth finish. Then the first meal my 2 year-old had at the table he will stab his fork into the top repeatedly, no doubt. Spunjinworks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Very nice, I like it. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weithman5 Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 that turned out boootiful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunjin Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Thanks. Better than store bought. Spunjinworks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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