Ladder appliance shelf Help!

[leonidsg]

Hello,

I am a beginner in wood working with a fairly simple question. I am making a leaning appliance shelf for my kitchen. I have attached a picture of approximately what I am building. I plan on routing dadoes into the side rails and then fitting in red oak plywood shelves with veneer edging. My question is: would glue be sufficient to hold the shelves into the dadoes and maintain structural integrity or do I need to use some form of hardware i.e. screws. I have thought of using screws but I want to keep them hidden. I have also thought of using the kreg jig and making hole under neath the shelves but then I am worried that the plugs wont look good. I am going to do a clear polyurethane coat with no stain because the natural red oak matches my pot rack that I have recently built.

Thank you for any and all help.

Lenny

[Beechwood Chip]

How much weight is it going to take, and what are the dimensions?

I'd use some screws, dowels, or tenons, since you don't have any long grain to long grain glue joints with just dadoes.

[PaulMarcel]

My biggest concern with the design is racking. If the legs are stout like they are in that picture and you have pretty deep dados for the shelves to register into, you'll mitigate the racking to a degree and you'd have enough registration that you could likely go at it without more than the glue (_if_ the shelves are snug in the dados).

Since it's made to look like it is leaning against a wall, you could greatly help against racking by anchoring one of the legs against the wall. If the top of the rack is above people's heads, it would be easy to hide a small connector up there. If not, then there'd be other creative ways to do it.

Depending on the width, you might consider hardwood banding the shelves rather than a veneer edging for more strength. Then again, I'm assuming a fairly thin shelf like 12mm. If you don't really like the look of the hardwood banding, just put it on the back of the shelves for strength and use veneer on the other 3 edges.

[leonidsg]

My biggest concern with the design is racking. If the legs are stout like they are in that picture and you have pretty deep dados for the shelves to register into, you'll mitigate the racking to a degree and you'd have enough registration that you could likely go at it without more than the glue (_if_ the shelves are snug in the dados).

Since it's made to look like it is leaning against a wall, you could greatly help against racking by anchoring one of the legs against the wall. If the top of the rack is above people's heads, it would be easy to hide a small connector up there. If not, then there'd be other creative ways to do it.

Depending on the width, you might consider hardwood banding the shelves rather than a veneer edging for more strength. Then again, I'm assuming a fairly thin shelf like 12mm. If you don't really like the look of the hardwood banding, just put it on the back of the shelves for strength and use veneer on the other 3 edges.

The side rails are 2.75" deep x 1.5" wide x 6' tall. Which means that I can make the dadoes about .75-1" of the 1.5" or more if you think that would help. The shelves are only 16" wide and 13/16" (3/4 plywood), I have plywood router dadoe bits so they should be snug. I don't know what racking means, if you wouldn't mind explaining. I have thought of hardwood banding but I thought that would complicate the project. The heaviest thing on their will be about 30lbs which is a kitchen aid mixer. Please let me know what you think. I appreciate all your help. Lenny

[WoodClips]

Have you seen the style that has a two inch high lip around the sides and back of the shelf? Judging from the pictures I found, this style seems pretty common. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. It also looks common to put a screw through the side lip and into the leg. This would give you additional glue surface and would make the shelves a lot sturdier. With only 3/4" plywood, I'd be concerned about the shelves looking kind of flimsy and sagging if you put anything heavy on them. You could buy a plug cutter and hide the screws with plugs cut from the same board. They wouldn't be invisible, but pretty close.

Rory

[PaulMarcel]

With 3/4" ply, you shouldn't have to worry about sagging at all so the hardwood banding is likely optional.

For racking, think of loading it up then stand on the side of it and push near the top. With deep dados, you'll have more resistance against racking, but still an issue to think about. Fortunately a small attachment to the wall at the top would correct that easily.

Looking at the picture you posted, how does that stay put without sliding forward? Must be more details I can't see.

As for the plywood bits, they might help. Make a dado with one in scrap and try it against your ply. Those are nominal sizes and manufacturers use the term "nominal" to mean they can make it even smaller and you can't complain.

[leonidsg]

With 3/4" ply, you shouldn't have to worry about sagging at all so the hardwood banding is likely optional.

For racking, think of loading it up then stand on the side of it and push near the top. With deep dados, you'll have more resistance against racking, but still an issue to think about. Fortunately a small attachment to the wall at the top would correct that easily.

Looking at the picture you posted, how does that stay put without sliding forward? Must be more details I can't see.

As for the plywood bits, they might help. Make a dado with one in scrap and try it against your ply. Those are nominal sizes and manufacturers use the term "nominal" to mean they can make it even smaller and you can't complain.

I think you are seeing everything, my friend has one of these and it stands up using friction of the bottom feet parts. His is wider and has more weight on it because it actually holds books. So it sounds like racking would be like a collapse since the dadoes do not really provide any horizontal support. But from what you are saying i can make something like an anchor to stop that. Thanks for all your help

[PaulMarcel]

Give Rory's link a look. If you look at what is included, it says "anti-tipping hardware". So they also mount it to the wall, though it might be a canvas loop like Ikea hands out.

[leonidsg]

Thanks for all the help. I will use your suggestions. Thanks again. Lenny

[iSawitFirst]

To brace against racking I'd put some triangle braces between the shelf and leg. They wouldn't have to be very big and could just be placed under the top and bottom shelves. Metal angles are another option.

[leonidsg]

To brace against racking I'd put some triangle braces between the shelf and leg. They wouldn't have to be very big and could just be placed under the top and bottom shelves. Metal angles are another option.

Thats a great idea, thank you!

[kesac]

Hello,

I am a beginner in wood working with a fairly simple question. I am making a leaning appliance shelf for my kitchen. I have attached a picture of approximately what I am building. I plan on routing dadoes into the side rails and then fitting in red oak plywood shelves with veneer edging. My question is: would glue be sufficient to hold the shelves into the dadoes and maintain structural integrity or do I need to use some form of hardware i.e. screws. I have thought of using screws but I want to keep them hidden. I have also thought of using the kreg jig and making hole under neath the shelves but then I am worried that the plugs wont look good. I am going to do a clear polyurethane coat with no stain because the natural red oak matches my pot rack that I have recently built.

Thank you for any and all help.

Lenny

You will not have any good glue joints like that. Dowels would help. Biscuits would help. Either of those, as a replacement for the dadoes.

Screws not so much, and certainly not forever. I usually use pocket hole screw as clamps for a glue up. They will show in your case, and they will not be a permanent fastner like an adequate glue joint will.