Newbie Question on Frame and Panel

[bradpotts]

There is another book called WoodWorking Wisdom and Know-How Everything you need to know to design, build, and create. This will help you along your journey. 

[Chestnut]

I have the sideboard guild build and have built one. Matt makes the bottom a bit complicated. For mine i just made a panel that fit inside the bottom and fastened a ledge around the perimeter to hold the bottom up.

Matt's method is frame and panel just with a raised panel that is flush with the rails and stiles.

For an outdoor build I'd to do slats with 1/4" gaps between the boards that way you can have good air movement. I'd attach the slats to a cleat on the ends.

[TomInNC]

7 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

I have the sideboard guild build and have built one. Matt makes the bottom a bit complicated. For mine i just made a panel that fit inside the bottom and fastened a ledge around the perimeter to hold the bottom up.

Matt's method is frame and panel just with a raised panel that is flush with the rails and stiles.

For an outdoor build I'd to do slats with 1/4" gaps between the boards that way you can have good air movement. I'd attach the slats to a cleat on the ends.

Thanks. So in your case, did you fasten the panel to the ledge, or just let it float? Good idea on the slats. I am using slats for the shelves on the other side, so this should simplify things significantly.

[Chestnut]

I honestly can't remember if I left it float secured it with screws and let the back float or used figure 8 fasteners. I probably used figure 8 fasteners because they are easy quick and cheap. I know people use angle brackets or other methods but those per unit cost more than figure 8s are imo take more effort to install.

https://www.amazon.com/Knape-Vogt-1547STL-Fastener-Gauge/dp/B0006FKSA6/ref=pd_ys_c_rfy_rp_m_58_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0006FKSA6&pd_rd_r=2W79BBYQXYCSRQ9J35C1&pd_rd_w=dvDND&pd_rd_wg=Prjkz&pf_rd_p=5d61ee21-c9c1-4f53-887e-8583c213529a&pf_rd_r=2W79BBYQXYCSRQ9J35C1&psc=1&refRID=3RJJ338VBMJGVJSNT7A5

For slats though I'd just glue and pin nail or just glue. a 3.5-4.5" slat won't have enough movement to matter. For outdoor make sure to use TB III or at least TBII. I did have a birdhouse made with TBII separate. TB III did eventually separate as well but it got 3 years of full sun and rain exposure and the wood may very well have split instead of the glue failing.

[TomInNC]

Have you had any issues with wood movement having a solid panel attached to the frame in the bottom? I am still struggling with when you need to be really concerned about wood movement. Until recently I had been building things with almost no thought given to movement. I guess I got lucky as I haven't had any issues yet with pieces breaking. Now, after reading way too much about wood movement, I am concerned that everything I put together will break apart the second the humidity changes. 

If I was really concerned about the bottom of the case moving, would it make sense for me to use frame-and-panel to construct the bottom, then mount the frame and panel on a frame as you suggested?

[Chestnut]

Wood movement is percentage of width so the wider the board the more movement there will be. It's also based on how much the humidity changes. temperature plays a small role but if RH is 60% year around there will likely be little movement. Pieces inside conditioned spaces typically move less EXCEPT in northern climates that have large heating needs. My house in the winter can dip down to 15% RH and hit 60% in the summer. I don't really think much about boards that are under 6-8" wide as they at most will change size 1/32".

Exterior wood could move more than interior, it could also move less. In coastal areas where humidity is more or less consistent year round there may be little movement.

Thinner stock will not be able to generate as much force and can sometimes be bullied into submission EG veneer. Once it's over 1/8" i consider it solid wood and take movement into account.

With out context of a picture of drawing it's hard to answer your exact question. Movement can get complicated but in general account for more than you think you need. Again this is mostly for wide panels like table tops panels in frame and panel construction or shelves.