earlex

[AceHoleInOne]

Thanks, it's great advice. Sometimes I get hung up on trying to much to understand something before doing it, but this is an easy way to break myself in. I've read that you should have a fan or you won't get as good a finish because of too much material in the air. I know about the explosive part and all that, but certainly in this case any fan would do? Is it worth the trouble?

This is what I do....I spray out in my garage not using a fan. I keep the door closed spray my coat...wait for the surface to tack up or skim over so dust or insects wont contaminate the surface. Then open my garage door to clear the air. As to your over-spray floating in the air contaminating your surface, I don't ever recall having an issue. The only thing I see could be a problem, should you have multiple parts in the spray room and over spray coming directly from the gun. However, I only spray pieces at a time, when tacked I move them out of harms way to dry. That's just me

With respect to Loogies comments of water-based finishes. After you have developed good spray technique, you will learn, as your final coat, to spray what is known as a "full wet coat" that especially with water-based finishes, look rough and orange peel, however, they will flow out nicely.

The picture below, shows just how rough it can look, but will flow out glass smooth, that's just how water-based rolls If my memory serves, the finish is General Finishes Enduro water-based lacquer.

-Ace-

edit......to clarify my other post... adjust your "fan" to about 6"... that is your spray guns fan, or better put spray pattern, adjust the length of the spray pattern to 6" (the fan) sorry in advance for any misunderstandings

Edited October 22, 2010 by Ace

[Alan Ambrose]

Atta boy Danny Boy!

Mine just came via UPS today. However, I called to order mine and he mentioned that there were other options for free gifts but the long sleeve t-shirt sounded the most appealing...so I've got a paintstore.com long sleeve T-shirt =) I like it. Pretty light weight but colorful...purdy!

My neighbor-friend came over to help me chek it out and we just sprayed some mineral spirits through it to make sure it was in good working order. All good! He even assured me (since I have zero experience in spraying finishes and his family owns a body shop that he works at) that it seemed a good gun.

Save the digits!

-Al

[ztifpatrick]

Ace gives some good tips there. It took me a while to get the hang of spraying finish. I took was spraying too lightly. Everything I read said to spray just enough so it looks "wet". What the heck does that mean!? To me it looks wet as soon as there's any finish on it. From there it just gets wetter. I have sprayed mainly waterborne finishes with excellent results. I have sprayed the following straight from the can with the Earlex 5000 using a 1.5 tip with excellent results: GF Enduro Pre-Cat Urethane, GF Enduro-Var, Zar Ultra-Max, Minwax Polycrylic. I have also sprayed McClosky Heirloom Satin Varnish (oil-based) thinned 10% with OMS, again with the 1.5 tip and had excellent results. Waterborne finishes dry VERY quickly. You can put down several coats in a day and they are, therefore, must less susceptible to dust contamination. After it's dry, just give it a wipe with a piece of brown paper bag and it will be very smooth and more uniform than I could ever get by hand.

Here's what I've learned about spraying with the the Earlex 5000. Set the gin up for a light spray to ensure good atomization. When you spray, make sure you hold the gun perpendicular to the surface you're spraying and move your whole body back and forth as you spray. If you use you're wrist action then you WILL have problems. Think of yourself as a spraying robot. As Ace said, most beginners don't lay down enough finish, but it's also easy to put down too much. Keep the gun set to a fine spray and vary your speed until you are laying down the right amount. Then after you figure out what that speed is, don't change it. Again, think robot. You should be laying down enough finish that it looks glossy wet, but not enough that it runs. If it's not glossy then the finish can not "flow-out" and you will end up with orange peel of a very rough finish.

Also, you don't need to clean the gun between sessions on the same project. I have sprayed then left for 4 days and come back, cleaned any dried finish from the tip and started spraying again right away. I just clean everything when I'm done with the project.

One last tip. The Earlex unit pulls it's air from the bottom of the unit. There's a small filter screen down there, but be careful that you only set it down on a clean surface otherwise it WILL ingest dust and debris from the surface and deposit it neatly on your pristine workpiece. Don't ask me how I know this.

Overall I have been exceedingly happy with the cost effectiveness of this unit. Someday I may replace it with a nicer non-bleeder gun and turbine, but it won't be for a while. I would whole-heartedly recommend this setup for anyone who was just getting into spray finishing.

Here's a sample:

That's a question I had wondered about. When to clean the gun, I was wondering if you put down 2 coats today and were coming back tomorrow for more, but you said 4 days!! When you said just clean the tip, did you have to remove it and the needle or are you using a brush on the exterior of the tip?

[AceHoleInOne]

Clean your gun at the end of each day. Don't leave finish in overnight. Take the needle out and clean. Soak the nozzle and air-cap in lacquer thinner or alcohol, whichever the case may be, depending on what your spraying. Keeping your gun clean, is a must, especially with water based finishes. As soon as your done with a spray session, and wont be spraying for a few hours, take the aircap off and toss it in some thinner to soak till your ready to spray again. Use a bread wire twist tie, (striping the paper off first) and clean the air-cap air holes out.

-Ace-

[markhochstein]

Ace may find the need to do that with solvent based finishes. My comment was specifically about water-based finishes. Solvent based finishes will skim over in the cup and dry in the gun fairly quickly, but I have had NO problems leaving water-based in there for a few days. Now, having said that, it's so easy to clean the gun after water-based that some may feel better doing so. As for cleaning the tip, l just peel the tiny film off the tip of there is one and I'm good to go.

[AceHoleInOne]

The problem with water-based finishes is that soap and water will not dissolve any of the semi-cured finish. In some solvent based, the thinners will actually dissolve the cured finish, alcohol will to shellac and lacquer thinner will to lacquer.

Picking the hard finish off of the tip of the fluid needle is OK! But my concern is always the dried finish that works its way into the air-cap holes Those will become partially restricted and your spray pattern will become disfigured and poor spray results will occur. And it has been my experience that alcohol and or lacquer thinner won't even dissolve dried on water-based finish from a spray gun.

After spraying water-based, Its always a good idea to soak the air-cap in a jar of lacquer thinner, It will help to loosen "semi" cured water-based. Another problem you could run into is, say the finish has sit in the cup and the flatteners have settled, so you get a stick and stir the cup, any partially skimmed finish that is floating in your cup is probably going to be sucked up into the spray gun. Because most guys will remove the guns filter due to water-based thicker consistency. A lot could go wrong...not saying it will...but could.

That is just me. Anything I can do to tip the scales in my favor and reduce finishing errors, measure twice...cut once, is a good idea.

That's Just Me......

-Ace-

[markhochstein]

The problem with water-based finishes is that soap and water will not dissolve any of the semi-cured finish. In some solvent based, the thinners will actually dissolve the cured finish, alcohol will to shellac and lacquer thinner will to lacquer.

Picking the hard finish off of the tip of the fluid needle is OK! But my concern is always the dried finish that works its way into the air-cap holes Those will become partially restricted and your spray pattern will become disfigured and poor spray results will occur. And it has been my experience that alcohol and or lacquer thinner won't even dissolve dried on water-based finish from a spray gun.

After spraying water-based, Its always a good idea to soak the air-cap in a jar of lacquer thinner, It will help to loosen "semi" cured water-based. Another problem you could run into is, say the finish has sit in the cup and the flatteners have settled, so you get a stick and stir the cup, any partially skimmed finish that is floating in your cup is probably going to be sucked up into the spray gun. Because most guys will remove the guns filter due to water-based thicker consistency. A lot could go wrong...not saying it will...but could.

That is just me. Anything I can do to tip the scales in my favor and reduce finishing errors, measure twice...cut once, is a good idea.

That's Just Me......

-Ace-

I knew I'd read somewhere not to use laquer thinner to clean a gun after using waterbased finishes but it took me a while to find it. Here's a clip from the Popular Woodworking Blog from Glen Huey:

Somewhere I read that water-base products turn to gunk in the gun – the technical term would be coagulate – and that causes issues when spraying. I haven't noticed any problems, but I thought it best to check things out. I turned to the group at Apollo Sprayers International, Inc. for answers and in the process, I picked up a tip that could save huge amounts of time if you switch between water-base and solvent-base finishes. John A. Darroch, CEO of the company, put it this way: Water-base materials do not coagulate inside spray guns. However, if you try to use lacquer thinner or paint thinner to clean them they certainly will. There is a chemical reaction between water-base materials and lacquer thinner that makes the water-base materials go gummy and very sticky. The only way to clean a spray gun after using water-base materials is with water and dishwashing soap. Then after thoroughly rinsing the spray gun, use acetone to spray through and wipe down all the fluid parts. Acetone is about the only material besides our Kleen-Again spray gun cleaner that works well to clean-up water-base materials (Kleen-Again is a bio-degradable soybean product available at The Finishing Store). Acetone is a good medium to spray when using the same spray gun with both water-base and solvent-base materials as it dries completely without leaving a residue.

This is a great tip and one I'll put to use immediately. My spray gun will thank me and I hope to see marked improvement in my spray finishes. If you have HVLP, or some other type of spray capabilities, what do you spray the most? Are you happy with your results? Even if you have a spray system that's gathering dust in your shop, let me know. Maybe we can get you and the spray gun back on speaking terms.

—Glen D. Huey

So my take is that if you spraying water-based finishes and you're worried about finishing collecting in the holes of the aircap (something I have not personally experienced) then throw it into a cup of soapy water.

Cheers,

Mark

[AceHoleInOne]

Hey Loogie:

I hear what the expert at the spray gun manufacture is saying, and we should all heed his advise. But I think the thought is, some guys only used lacquer thinner to clean the entire spray gun out, which I do not recommend either.

Let’s think about this, you finished spraying a project and its time to clean up. You pour the finish from the spray gun, back into the can. Now your gun will contain a fair amount of water-based finish clinging to the inside of your cup and gun. Ideally, you should clean the gun with hot, some say soapy water.

Now, instead of water to clean the gun, lets pour a few slugs of lacquer thinner in the cup mixing it in with the water-based finish and put the gun body back on the cup and begin shaking and spraying it through the gun. Sure the chemical reaction the Apollo guy suggest, may happen and turn the water-based to a thick and sticky substance that could clog your gun, sure, I get that!

As far as the water-based don’t coagulate inside of spray guns, check the pot life from the finish manufacture you are using. Not every product is manufactured the same. Some water-based finishes have cross-linkers added, and will limit pot-life.

In my experience, soaking a spray gun air cap (just the air cap) which has some semi cured water-based on it, into some soapy water will not soften and help loosen the crud. I have used denatured alcohol with some success, lacquer thinner is a little hotter, and readily available, and works the best for me. I hear, MEK works good for dried on water-based, never used it so I can't confirm.

-Ace-

I knew I'd read somewhere not to use laquer thinner to clean a gun after using waterbased finishes but it took me a while to find it. Here's a clip from the Popular Woodworking Blog from Glen Huey:

Somewhere I read that water-base products turn to gunk in the gun – the technical term would be coagulate – and that causes issues when spraying. I haven't noticed any problems, but I thought it best to check things out. I turned to the group at Apollo Sprayers International, Inc. for answers and in the process, I picked up a tip that could save huge amounts of time if you switch between water-base and solvent-base finishes. John A. Darroch, CEO of the company, put it this way: Water-base materials do not coagulate inside spray guns. However, if you try to use lacquer thinner or paint thinner to clean them they certainly will. There is a chemical reaction between water-base materials and lacquer thinner that makes the water-base materials go gummy and very sticky. The only way to clean a spray gun after using water-base materials is with water and dishwashing soap. Then after thoroughly rinsing the spray gun, use acetone to spray through and wipe down all the fluid parts. Acetone is about the only material besides our Kleen-Again spray gun cleaner that works well to clean-up water-base materials (Kleen-Again is a bio-degradable soybean product available at The Finishing Store). Acetone is a good medium to spray when using the same spray gun with both water-base and solvent-base materials as it dries completely without leaving a residue.

This is a great tip and one I'll put to use immediately. My spray gun will thank me and I hope to see marked improvement in my spray finishes. If you have HVLP, or some other type of spray capabilities, what do you spray the most? Are you happy with your results? Even if you have a spray system that's gathering dust in your shop, let me know. Maybe we can get you and the spray gun back on speaking terms.

—Glen D. Huey

So my take is that if you spraying water-based finishes and you're worried about finishing collecting in the holes of the aircap (something I have not personally experienced) then throw it into a cup of soapy water.

Cheers,

Mark

[Juicegoose]

Something I noticed on my 5000 is the lack of adjustability on the fan width. The manual states that if you unscrew the ring it will adjust the pattern. I personally haven't noticed a difference. Am I missing something?

Also regarding cleaning. While using some latex paint for the utility room cabinets I made the mistake of getting lazy and just throwing the gun and parts in a tub of water to soak. Most of the paint washed away but the feed tube had tried paint in it that only a pipe cleaner could remove.

My advice is like everyone elses. Unless your going to lay down another coat of finish in a couple hours I don't see any reason why you shouldn't clean the gun. If for no other reason then to possibly save time later.

[AceHoleInOne]

Hey Juice...I don't think the Earlex gun adjusts like a compressed air gun, meaning a separate air control knob to adjust the fan width. Isn't the fluid knob the only adjustment?

Is it to change the fan pattern you click the air nozzle 1 for round...2 for vertical...3 for horizontal? Hope Loogie can jump in on this.

-Ace-

[Juicegoose]

Ace...

Thats all the adjustments I've seen but couple times i've read through the manual it talks about the adjustment. Maybe it's referring to the vert/hor/circle adjustment. I'm often mistaken

[markhochstein]

No Juice, you are correct. The Earlex 500 manual states: The overall size of the selected spray pattern can be varied by turning the Air Cap Ring (1). When viewed from the front, rotate it clockwise to increase the pattern size, or anti-clockwise to reduce the pattern size. I, however, have not found this adjustment to have a dramatic effect. Certainly nothing like the higher end guns that can pinch the fan down to 2" or so. This is, after all, and entry level spray setup.

[markhochstein]

In my experience, soaking a spray gun air cap (just the air cap) which has some semi cured water-based on it, into some soapy water will not soften and help loosen the crud. I have used denatured alcohol with some success, lacquer thinner is a little hotter, and readily available, and works the best for me. I hear, MEK works good for dried on water-based, never used it so I can't confirm.

-Ace-

I don't think there's necessarily a right or wrong here, just different techniques. Since we have guys who are just getting into the spraying game, my goal was to provide as much info as possible. I think we've done that. Now each person can decide for themselves what they'd like to do based on their own conditions and experiences.