Vic Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Im with Bobby on this one, but I am curious to what all you light tech guys think about using 400watt Metal Halides. Thats what I have in my garage and was going to install them in my new garage. Working most of my life in a machine shop that is what I got use to. Im just wondering if thats good or bad. That's probably the most common fixture, besides old T12s that I provide incentives for replacing. They are quite a bit more expensive to run 458watt per fixture (400w) compared to about half that for a equivalent amount of light from a T8 fixture. They also have a very short life span of around 12,000 hours and the light output is tanked once they are 40% into that life span. The big problem with them is that they overstrike when they start up. That's why they turn yellowish or somewhat orange. The overstriking causes the lamps to get tiny fractures on the inside of the lamp. They are also not instant on, as I'm sure you are aware. When I replace them, it's typical for the rated lumens to be 30% less from the new fixture and everyone always perceives much more light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 That's probably the most common fixture, besides old T12s that I provide incentives for replacing. They are quite a bit more expensive to run 458watt per fixture (400w) compared to about half that for a equivalent amount of light from a T8 fixture. They also have a very short life span of around 12,000 hours and the light output is tanked once they are 40% into that life span. The big problem with them is that they overstrike when they start up. That's why they turn yellowish or somewhat orange. The overstriking causes the lamps to get tiny fractures on the inside of the lamp. They are also not instant on, as I'm sure you are aware. When I replace them, it's typical for the rated lumens to be 30% less from the new fixture and everyone always perceives much more light. If you're REALLY in love with the metal halides, there is a technology call Metro-Light that is a control ballast for HID fixtures that prevents the overstriking and will greatly increase the life span and efficacy of the fixture. But, still not to the 30,000 hour life span of a typical high output T8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester Posted October 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 I know that there are some who think that we have made "too big of a deal" on this lighting thing but I have really learned a lot. Vic's last response is a very good example of another aspect of which I was unaware. I had heard of metal halide but didn't know squat about them. We certainly have a great resource in the combined experience of the membership of this forum. Good job, all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopnhack Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 I'm with Chester. Not to flame anyone, but I'd rather ask questions and dig in the deep end (get technical) than spend hundreds of dollar to find out I goofed. A female friend of mine says that "its just a guy thing, that you guys would rather jump in than take a second to plan", lol, I said to her sometimes... It's nice to learn from experimenting, but for some of us its too costly. I like to get the best for my money so I am patient and ask questions. IMHO Big thanks to Vic, Loogie and others for sharing their professional expertise and experiences! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Slack Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Speaking of lighting, I have an old fixture with a couple of fluorescent tubes and when I touched this morning it gave me a "tingling" sensation. Immediately I threw this in the trash and will replace this with a new fixture. Saving $ 20 or $ 40 is not worth burning my entire shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHop Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Alright, I have a few questions. Vic, when you state "older eyes," where do you draw that age point? And do glasses make a difference? And if they do, does the strength of the prescription affect that "older" age point? Would you recommend LED for spot specific task lighting, such as drilling at a drill press, or table saw blade spotlighting? is there ever a point when LEDs can provide good finishing light? (Perhaps raking light?) I've heard a mix of lighting sources is best; would you mix and match flourescent overhead lighting, or mix lighing fixture types? and should you set up a separate panel just for lighting? Do you guys have any particular preference for conduit/piping/wiring for these aspects? Any favorite table lamps make it into the shop? And how does natural light interfere with overhead or task lighting? I'd check out the Fine Woodworking article, but i don't subscribe at the moment. Probably won't be until next year, either. Too many shop upgrades to plan and purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinG Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 How does ceiling height play into thi?. I have a pole building with vaulted ceilings, 18 ft at the peak, 10ft along the outside edges. So how do I add in the extra lights to account for the high ceilings? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markhochstein Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 AJ, Would you be willing to suspend your lights from the rafters? If so then you could still have the lights at 10'-12' to give you the free movement area you desire without significantly affecting your light output perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 I've got the opposite problem - the ceilings in my basement shop are about 8', and there are a lot of ducts and pipes suspended under the ceiling. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 I've got the opposite problem - the ceilings in my basement shop are about 8', and there are a lot of ducts and pipes suspended under the ceiling. Any ideas? Do you have some photos? I can check some stuff out and see if I or some of my contractors can come up with a good solution for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteJr Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 I've got the opposite problem - the ceilings in my basement shop are about 8', and there are a lot of ducts and pipes suspended under the ceiling. Any ideas? I installed 16 foot 2 x 4 perpendicular to the joists and fastened the light housings to them. That helped avoid gas and water lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Alright, I have a few questions. Vic, when you state "older eyes," where do you draw that age point? And do glasses make a difference? And if they do, does the strength of the prescription affect that "older" age point? Would you recommend LED for spot specific task lighting, such as drilling at a drill press, or table saw blade spotlighting? is there ever a point when LEDs can provide good finishing light? (Perhaps raking light?) I've heard a mix of lighting sources is best; would you mix and match flourescent overhead lighting, or mix lighing fixture types? and should you set up a separate panel just for lighting? Do you guys have any particular preference for conduit/piping/wiring for these aspects? Any favorite table lamps make it into the shop? And how does natural light interfere with overhead or task lighting? I'd check out the Fine Woodworking article, but i don't subscribe at the moment. Probably won't be until next year, either. Too many shop upgrades to plan and purchase. AJ...sorry, but I never saw this question. Old is just a progression. For me it has already started with my eyes. I got transition lenses a few year ago. A whiter light gives better scotopic lumens. What it does is trick your eyes into better visual acuity by constricting your pupils. LED are fine for task lighting, I just use a good quality CFL. I prefer ones that actually mimic a incandescent lamp. I've found these by Sylvania are the closest. I've not been able to get them anywhere except a wholesale electric house. http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/documents/CF049_Living%20Spaces%20PIB.98c86489-db37-4330-a6a6-83fb41c9a5a8.pdf These are not white lights, but rather the 2700K of a typical household incandescent. As far as my favorite task lighting fixture..it's the old school swing arm type. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=clamp+on+swing+arm+light+fixture&hl=en&prmd=ivns&resnum=4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7425387980524936119&sa=X&ei=V_vaTcXKIpDZiAL8vP3_Bw&ved=0CH8Q8gIwAA&biw=1280&bih=685# Check your local code for your particular situation on the wire you run, whether conduit is necessary, etc. Yes, definitely have your lights on a separate circuit. Also, in the future, if you need a more immediate response, PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNehlsEnd Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 I realize this is an old thread, although its been a very interesting read. It seems as if the florescent tubes are the number one choice for shop lighting. While I agree with the tube fixtures which were my number one choice as well, its not what I ended up going with. I just got my new shop a 12 x 30 shed wired for the electrical. Not having enough electrical supply in my last 2 shops this was one area I didn't want to skimp in. When it came time to decide on lighting, the florescent tube fixtures were not in the budget for the number of fixtures I wanted. What I went with and am happy with is recessed lighting cans. I installed 18 fixtures in 3 banks of 6 and used the 23 watt CFL's for bulbs. Given the fact that I have 8' ceilings this lights my shop very well with very little shadow to deal with. Just thought I'd share what I did for shop lighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkers Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 I installed 18 fixtures in 3 banks of 6 and used the 23 watt CFL's for bulbs. Given the fact that I have 8' ceilings this lights my shop very well with very little shadow to deal with. Just thought I'd share what I did for shop lighting. That's a pretty good idea. I'll have to file that away for when I move. Do you have any shop pictures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNehlsEnd Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Here is a couple of pics I have on LumberJocks. http://lumberjocks.com/Gregn/workshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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