AnalogKid Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I am building my second hollow wooden surfboard and I'm looking for a way to seal the wood. My first board got a polyester resin and fiberglass finish, which works fine but its just to damn toxic for my taste(literally). Epoxy would work great but $80-$120 per gallon makes it cost prohibitive. I'm wondering if say polyurethane or a thompsons water seal is actually waterproof or just resistant. While they may keep water off the wood, can they hold up in a marine environment where they will be submerged in salt water for hours at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 No ! Think about it if there was an eco friendly way to build surfboards don't you think some earthy crunchy Californian wouldn't already be marketing them? Your choices are fiberglass and epoxy or polyester. All marine coatings on wood fail the more frequent they are wet and exposed. Some sooner than others but eventually they deteriorate . Foam and fiberglass are much lighter too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Welcome to the forums. Steve is right.. Suggest and upgrade in respiratory protection.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Wooden Boat Construction, Chapter 15: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/GougeonBook%20061205.pdf ==>polyurethane There are some 2-part poly-based marine coatings that are very good (it's what I use) and will last years with little maintenance, but it you balk at $80 - $120/gal, then $199 - $250/gal may be a non-starter... ==>thompsons water seal basically crap Remember, it's not just water -- you've got: water + UV + salt + shark attacks + dings & bangs + scrapes + sand + etc... You might not like the non-green footprint (or the cost structure of a green coating -- which seems to go hand-in-hand), but if there is a green coating, it's probably known by the surfer crowd... There must be several surfboard forums... Why not ask the experts? Same goes for the Boogie Board folks... If it's out there, those folks would know about it... But I bet it's expensive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalogKid Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Unfortunately the crunchy Californians don't have a solution. The surf industry is more focused on cheap quick production than they are with durability which is a driving factor behind the use of foam. A hollow wood board does not weigh much more and the added heft is beneficial in some situations. I have a respirator 3M with OV cartridge but the odor sticks with you for a while anyway. I am on the surfboard forums as well and in particular an all wooden surfboard forum and a real solution besides resin and glass doesn't seem to exist. Tom Wegener, a professional surfboard builder, uses linseed oil but his boards are made from paulownia and are made from solid wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalogKid Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I have done much research on this topic and unfortunately surfers typically don't know much about wood or woodworking. I am more of a woodworker than a surfer and was hoping someone here might have a solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Well, if the surfer dudes can't provide an answer, then it's back to: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/GougeonBook%20061205.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 You can have it eco friendly , inexpensive or waterproof....pick one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Well, if the surfer dudes can't provide an answer, then it's back to: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/GougeonBook%20061205.pdf Wow that's a good book Trip. Thanks for linking as it looks to be a mine of useful info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalogKid Posted July 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I think I may have found the answer I was looking for. I have just been asking the wrong question. Tung oil or linseed oil along with beeswax have been used with much success for traditional Hawaiian surf boards called alaia for centuries. And yes the link has lots of good info about wood properties and characteristics. Albeit the heavy bias for west system is off-putting seeing as it written by the people who make/endorse it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I certainly don't make it and they don't pay me to endorse it but, I do know it's a good product that works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 ==>looks to be a mine of useful info. I’ve got the original hardbound copy (maybe 20 years old) – it includes a great back section of color plates not reproduced in the PDF... I’m not sure exactly when Gougeon put the book out there in PDF format, but it’s a wealth on info for anyone looking into structural wood repair, hardware bonding, bent laminations, water resistant finishing, epoxy in general, etc... In addition, West Systems publishes at least a hundred white papers on applications, technical notes, vacuum pressing, glassing (fiberglass), filling cracks in basement block walls, repairing airplane wings, etc. These are well worth investigating. You might not need to repair a boat, but the techniques are transferable. While I’ve not read them all, I’ve read a majority... At one point (that may still do), you could ask West Systems tech support to send you all of them in nice bound paper format... You got a big box with about a hundred five to fifty+ page 3-ring-punched hard copies... Great bathroom reading... I kept them until the PDFs were published... http://www.westsystem.com/ss/projects/http://www.westsystem.com/ss/how-to-use/http://www.westsystem.com/ss/how-to-publications-2/ They also publish a free magazine on boat construction, repair, maintenance, etc... Many of the projects are back-yard type: canoes, kayaks, skiffs, John-boats, etc... Again, you might not build a kayak, but the techniques are interesting... ==>Albeit the heavy bias for west system is off-putting seeing as it written by the people who make/endorse it. It's part of an overall sales model called the 'technical sell'... Very popular in BigPharma/MedDev (day job) -- educate the customer as to your surgical mesh provides the best patient outcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalogKid Posted July 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I'm not debating the effectiveness of it, it's a great product and does everything as it's designed. I have used it myself. I would just rather avoid petrochemicals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 ==>I would just rather avoid petrochemicals. No doubt, it's an issue... But compared to solvent-based conversion varnish, epoxy's like mother's milk... Steve hit the nail on the head -- cost, efficacy, green... pick one. actually, I'm not sure you can discount cost -- maybe anything that's going to work well costs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalogKid Posted July 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I am quite familiar with canoe/ kayak building using the stitch and tape method. I've built 2 canoes in this manner and after dealing with resin I know first hand I don't want to use them. That old mantra works not by picking one but by picking 2. Poly resin is the cheapest and is effective but not green. Epoxy could be considered green and effective but not cheap. Tung oil is green and cheaper than epoxy(slightly more$ than poly resin) but I don't know how effective it is in this application Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Tung oil and beeswax may work ok at resisting water if the wood is saturated with oil, and wax is re-applied frequently, as in prior to each exposure to water. Sort of like a butcher block finish. That mix is likely used for "traditional" wooden boards because it was all they had available. Also, aren't "traditional" boards typically solid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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