Jason Hotze Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 So I'm finishing a table and the only way I could match the color they wanted is with a general finishes dye stain mixture, shellac seal coat thinned a little another stain color and then the poly. This method was pretty easy on my two test pieces I did but on the large table pieces the shellac is bleeding the dye around a lot. I knew it would pull some of the color but this is leaving distinct start and stop lines. The table is 8' by 40" so just running a smooth brush stroke is easier said than done. Am I missing something or should I just have sprayed all these coats and not messed with it? Thanks! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 Is the dye alcohol soluable? If so, shellac will re-activate it, since it is also dissolved in alcohol. Spraying the shellac sounds like the best bet, and make sure it is fully cured before the second dye coat. Come to think if it, dyes can be used to tint shellac. How about mixing the dye in the shellac, and spraying all at once? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted May 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 Well the dye is water soluble but the alcohol in the shellac Pulls it up just enough to leave lines. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted May 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 You can see where the brush strokes start and stop. After a few seconds if I go back and re brush to smooth the lines out the line stays their and the color underneath the line changes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted May 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 Haha we'll probably less the size of balls and more the lack of ever using this technique and finishing schedule. I am using the biggest foam brush I could find. I think it's 6" wide. The reason that I'm using the shellac in the first place is to seal the dye stain. I then have another color stain that goes on this and then poly. It's way over complicated but this customer was super picky about the color and this was the only Combination that appeased them. It worked great on my test pieces but obviously didn't have the drying issue on a small piece. I'm thinking spraying is the only way to go for the top of the table. The picture is the underside. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 Definitely spray the shellac! Thin coats will dry faster and have less chance of dissolving the dye below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted May 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 So I sprayed the dye stain and the shellac and it worked amazing! Not a single bit of running color. The shellac comes out in such a mist that it was hard to tell if I had enough of a coat on. I was afraid to turn the fluid up cause if I got to much I couldn't wipe it back without running the color. But I just kept spraying and waiting a few minutes for the alcohol to evaporate and am pretty sure I got a good coat on there. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Learning has occurred Marine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted May 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Haha it sure has. I love spraying finish but I hate closing my shop down to set up all the plastic and not being able to work on other stuff while that's all set uo Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted May 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 And after bringing a piece from the house out to the garage and comparing the two the top took the color WAYYY darker than the rest. So looks like it's back to bare wood and then hand applying the dye stain and then spraying the shellac to prevent the running.. I didn't realize spraying the dye stain would affect the color so drastically Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Dyes are what I use when I want to be able to sneak up on an intensity. In my experience, pigment stains reach a certain intensity and then don't really benefit from additional coats as far as darkening or intensifying the color goes. Each additional coat or additional volume of dye darkens the previous coat until saturation is reached. Your sprayed dye volume was probably greater than your brushed volume unless you have a killer brush and technique. I am fascinated by Jewitt, Dresdner, Gedrys and others that seem to be able to make a finish do whatever they want it too. If I live an exceptionally long time I may acquire a 10th of their skill. For now I have to carefully add specific protocols to my knowledge base. I have learned to never, never try something new on an actual piece until I've done it on a mock-up that has had identical surface preparation a couple of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlau Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 if you can, its best to use the dye toned top coat or sealer to get up to color then final top coat.. light coats are always better than one heavy coat be it color or top coat. and i also applaud the dresdners and jewitts out there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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