First Try at Dovetails


JoshC1501

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Well here is my 3rd try.  Much better this time.  Still some gaps but a nice tight fit.  I cut to the waste site of the line on the tails, and then fine tuned them with a chisel.

 

I am curious how good people are, how often do you need to fix gaps, similar to the technique described in the recent FWW series?

 

Since I don't have a table saw for a little over a month, this is a great time to practice some of these hand tool skills.  Need to breakout my copy of the Hybrid Woodworking!  

 

Josh

 

 

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I tried to cut dovetails for the first time a couple weeks ago. I used Cedar and it didn't work out well. I had hardcore chip out when I was paring to get the right fit. My friend told me to use maple or poplar and so yesterday I tried using hard maple it worked a lot better. I'm not done with it but so far there is no chip out at all and the fit is pretty close.

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It is my observation that the single biggest thing that leads to problems in dovetails...especially when first learning them...is not ensuring that ones tails cuts (assuming you are cutting tails first) are square across the endgrain (if pins first then square down the long grain). The tendency when starting out is to pay too much attention to the the tail angle (which doesn't matter) and not enough attention to getting a square cut. If your tails are not square than you get a wedging action as you try to drive them into the pin sockets...this leads you to trim them (whilst still leaving them out of square) which resutls in a fit that may feel tight, but is gappy because its really only tight at the widest point of the tail.

 

I can almost guarantee you that if you take the time to make sure that your tail cuts are DEAD NUTS SQUARE..the majority of those gaps will disappear.  When I was first learning them and discovered this out of squareness was causing the vast majority of my problems I went as far as to start the kerf (very shallow..just scoring with the saw), then stop sawing and check it for square before sawing all the way down at the tail angle.  This allowed me to correct things if I started slightly out of square until I got more consisten with my sawing. I don't need to take work that slow or take that extra step anymore, but that single thing is what fixed them, and I still always double check my tails for square before I lay out my pins.

 

Good dovetails are all about sawing...good sawing...square sawing. If your intial cuts are square in the direction they are supposed to be almost all your other issue will go away.  

 

You are off to a very good start.  Try doing what I just mentioned and it will catapult you forward. Then you can get to the point where you can cut really good dovetails in those rare occasion where it matters, and cut fast good enough dovetails the rest of them time, since more often then not you will cover them with molding anyway. 

 

You know you've made it when you are comfortable enough with your dovetailing that you are not afraid to cover them up..even when they are spectacular. :rolleyes:

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Awesome, thanks for the tip. I was trying to be DEAD BALLS SQAURE but now I can see that being DEAD NUTS SQUARE is the clear correct solution. ;)

 

Haha yes...its a common mixup.

 

Don't just try for square...check for square. I try to avoid paring or trimming my dovetails, but if I find that a tail is a little out of square I will trim it to sqaure with a paring chisel or float BEFORE I mark the pins.  Most people who trim, trim to fit after they cut the pins, but at that point you've compounded the error. It is best to make sure your tails are square up front..preferably by sawing but if necessary then by truing before moving on to the next step.

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  You know that is a subtle detail that people wouldn't think about. I of course didn't. I just cut the tails and then the pins and then get them to fit, but making sure the tails are completely square before marking the pins makes perfect sense once you mention it. Thanks for the tip!!

 

Haha yes...its a common mixup.

 

Don't just try for square...check for square. I try to avoid paring or trimming my dovetails, but if I find that a tail is a little out of square I will trim it to sqaure with a paring chisel or float BEFORE I mark the pins.  Most people who trim, trim to fit after they cut the pins, but at that point you've compounded the error. It is best to make sure your tails are square up front..preferably by sawing but if necessary then by truing before moving on to the next step.

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I thought I'd chime in.
Josh, I've been cutting hand-cut dovetails for many years.

Basically it is one of the very few things I did by hand from the start. Even as a die-hard Normite power tool guy, I've never used a jig to cut dovetails. I have the advantage of time on my side. If you own a high volume commercial shop, I can really see the value of power cutting your dovetails. But my little one-man shop allows me to have fun cutting them by hand.

 

Anyway, It has been my experience that a lot of how close is close enough depends on the material you are cutting them in. Also, if you are cutting them with the drawer face out of one material and the drawer side out of a contrasting material you will need to have them fit tighter. Having said that, I've found now over the years that I can fix a lot of dovetail issues.... hmmm maybe I've had too much practice. This is not to say you can polish a turd, but you can correct a lot of issues. Of course, these little repairs add time to the project as well. So, you should try to avoid it.

 

Another thing I've found is that materials like pine work better for me with slightly larger dovetails, a tighter grain like maple, I go with smaller ones.

 

I'm sure you can find as many different ways to cut dovetails as their are people out there trying to cut em. Best suggestion is just keep on practicing.

 

Which reminds me, I've always wanted to live around the corner from Carnegie Hall. That way when somebody asks for directions to my house I can say "Practice, Practice, Practice... turn left."

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Need some help.  After 6 single tries I decided I would try to saw 2 sets of tails at a single time, as recommended in the article in FWW.   The article says its easier to stay square using this method.  

 

Well not sure its easier or not, but it definitely makes the error more pronounced.  I just can't cut square.  Need some help with technique on this, any videos or posts anyone can refer me too?

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This is good. Now you know whats wrong, and fortunately the fix is simple.  You need to learn to saw square, and more broadly speaking, you need to learn to saw to a line.  If you can saw to a line, then when you saw to a square line your cuts will be square, and when you saw to a not square line they will be where they need as well. Eventually, it makes little difference (from the perspective of your the sawyer)  whether you are sawing square or at an angle. You are just sawing to a line.

 

The solution is practice. Correct practice.  Repeatedly going through the entire process of sawing dovetails does you little good. You need to isolate and fix the main problem. On a tail board you make maybe 4-6 cuts, but if you just mark a bunch of lines across and down the endgrain of a board you get far far more practice in at a faster rate and using up less material.

 

Take a board...ideally a thick board or gang two boards together. This gives you longer lines to saw too on the endgrain and like the article you referenced points out, it exaggerates your squareness (or lack there of)  making it easier for you to dial in your cuts.

 

Begin by just marking square lines. Square across the end grain and square/plumb down the long grain.  Then saw.  Practice this until you feel confident that you can consistently saw square in both directions. 

 

Next do the same thing but instead of marking square in both directions, put the line going down the long grain at an angle. You are practicing tail cuts now.  Do this until you are confident you can saw square across the endgrain while still more or less following the dovetail angle.  Be sure that you have some angled marks in each dovetail direction just like you would when sawing real dovetails.

 

Next, practice pin cuts. Mark a bunch of lines square/plum down the long grain but at a dovetail angle(s) across the end grain. Again, practice until you can saw square down, while still following your angled line across the end grain.

 

Finally. mix things up. Practice being able to go from one type of cut to the other with ease. Make sure you are always sawing right too the line and most importantly make sure your lines that are marked square end up being square cuts.

 

The more practice cuts you can get on one board the better.  You'll be amazed at how quickly you see the results from just a little isolated practice.  One word of caution when doing this.  Do not mark your cuts too TOO close together. Then when you saw, the wood can flex causing your saw to wander.  Leave enough meat (probably about 1/16") between each cut to ensure that you maintain a rigid kerf.

 

Once you can consistently saw to a line, dovetails are nothing special.

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