Setting-up Shop - Need Advice on a TableSaw

[ngabriel]

Hi all,

I'm setting up a shop from ground-zero and seeking some advice on table-saws. Space is not a huge concern for me, my working area is more than large enough to accommodate just about anything. Money of course is a concern, but I'm not looking to nickle-and-dime this purchase. I'm willing to pay for quality. I'm a novice woodworker (that is actually overstating my skill quite a bit) so I imagine that just about any tablesaw on the market will suite my initial needs. But, I want something that I can grow into that wont be wind up slowing my down as I gain experience.

In the past, I've worked a great deal with SawStop cabinet saws (just never owned one of my own). Being a Software Engineer by day, I've grown to appreciate the finger safety they offer. I'm pretty hooked on SawStop but would be willing to hear opinions on other brands (Powermatic, etc ...). What I'm really trying to get a sense for is what size I should be shooting for. SawStop has 110V 1.75HP models, larger 220V 5HP, models, etc ... The 110V machine is quite appealing to me as I do not have a 220 drop in my shop. But, I fear 1.75HP will prove to be under-powered in the long run. If I need to get a 220 hookup, I'd rather do that than fiddle with a dinky saw.

Before you ask what I want to do with my woodworking, I'll simply say "I don't know. Anything that does NOT involve a computer". Frankly, I'm interested in just about everything with the exception of turning (somehow that doesn't excite me). So a versatile machine is ultimately what I'm looking for.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

P.S. I'm also looking forward to joining the guild. I just don't know much sense that makes until I'm setup with at least the essential tools.

[Nick2cd]

well, i just bought a sawstop 110v. i bought the contractor saw with the 36" fence. i haven't put it together yet (been sick) so i can't say if it is underpowered. however, the fit, finish, accuracy, and overall beefiness are supposed to be second to none. i read about 100000 reviews on this saw and all were off the charts positive. if ur purchasing a new saw, i just can't think of buying anything other than a sawstop. the technology is there to potentially save a finger or even a hand. just like you, im in an industry where i work with my hands. i would literally be out of a job if i couldn't use my hands or even if i was down a finger. it's just a no brainer for me. sawstop is in development of an entire line of tools with the same safety feature. release dates are unknown, but they will probably be worth a look as well.

[knotscott]

There are many good table saws around, but the Saw Stop is the only one that will save your fingers in the event of an accident. They're also pretty pricey, but most feel that the quality is high, and that the safety feature makes the saw a good value.

[PaulMarcel]

I've never used the 1.75 hp SawStop (the 110V model), but Charles Neil recently got one to try from a local deal. He raved about it claiming it had more power than he expected. The caveat is that you never know if a pro woodworker on video stating a preference gets a kick back (er, pun not intended ).

It is also interesting to know that they have an accessory that lets you rewire the 1.75 to 220V. For most induction motors, this is just swapping some wiring to the coils and start capacitor, but the SawStop needs the accessory to basically translate 220 down to 110 for various components in the saw (brake computer, firing mechanism, self-check unit, and the induction unit that does the detection). Anyway, you still have a 1.75hp saw, but typically such a 110->220 upgrade results in faster starting, less current-starved motors at high load, and if you have a problem with tripping breakers at 110, that usually goes away. Just something to remember should you go with the 110V model and later get 220V. Again, no power gain.

My 1.75hp Powermatic 64 never felt underpowered. The worse load I threw at it was 8/4 Purpleheart (10') for a rip cut with a combo blade. It had no issues.

[jab73180]

Grizzly makes nice stuff from what i hear. i intend to buy a 6 inch jointer from them soon. the only thing that scares me with the saw stop is the non skin contact blade trip that happens from time to time. somebody on the forum had it happen just the other day. your out a cartridge and a blade when that happens. if you use the safety guards and push sticks, cutting your fingers off shouldnt be an issue.

[Ben@FineWoodworking]

somebody on the forum had it happen just the other day. your out a cartridge and a blade when that happens.

That wound up being user error. He figured out later that his miter gage hit the blade.

I've never seen a case of a sawstop misfiring.

If I could afford it I'd get one.

I can't... I'm still cruisin' craigslist for the right find.

[dlamulle]

Well, I own the Sawstop Industrial. My wife got it for me last Christmas after a very close call with a kickback. The saw is the best I have ever used hands down. I still own a Delta X5 ( you can see them if you go to my shop pics in the shop section) and I have owned a Jet and used Powermatic.

I started with a small underpowered saw which I think was a model 3000 ryobi or bosch or something, then bought the Jet, then upgraded to the X5, now the SS. My first 2 saws were 110 and couldn't hang with what I wanted to do. Take some advice and buy good the first time if you can afford it or you will spend more money in the long run if you stick with this hobby. I don't even think it should be a second thought if you can afford a SS for sure. You can never replace fingers and I thought I was super careful and had been for years but sometimes accidents happen and they do it when you least expect it.

You need a Tablesaw, Joiner and Planer if you will be using rough stock, if not you can do without machines all together if you like. First, you really need to figure what you like to do or want to do and then follow it. For instance, I wanted to be able to build all the furniture in my house before I retire. Tall order but that is my plan and I need some big tools for what I want to build. If you want to do small boxes and gifts first, you can start much much smaller. Handcrafted wooden laptops maybe? J/K of course.

Hope this helps some,

Dave

[dublinmark]

I have the Jet SuperSaw and can't wait to replace it. its underpowered and has bad dust collection. I will either go with Grizzly or with the SS. I may do the SS just from the safety standpoint because my sons work in the shop. they don't use the table saw now, but someday they will start.

[Mister Pants]

Grizzly makes nice stuff from what i hear.

They do. From a cost/value perspective I'd probably rate Grizzly as the best in the arena. I'd say you get the most bang for your buck from Grizzly, but in the end you also get what you pay for. From a bells and whistles standpoint you'll get more with a Powermatic, Delta Unisaw or the SawStop's but you will certainly pay for those extras.

[jefferyrw]

I recently upgraded from a 220 VAC 1.75 HP contractor saw (under powered) with a 34" fence to a Powermatic PM2000 with a 50" fence and 3HP motor. This is a great saw with excellent dust collection. I seriously considered the Saw Stop. Properly tuning your saw and operating it safely (guards in place and using push sticks, etc) is the key to not getting injured. That said, you can't go wrong with either the Powermatic or Saw Stop, just don't skimp on power or fence capacity if you have the room. A 220 volt circuit is not difficult to install in most cases.

Kick back is nearly eliminated by using sharp blades on a well and properly tuned and aligned saw.

Technical Note:Re-wiring a 1.75 HP motor to 220 volts does not increase the power, torgue, or anything else. It does drop the current draw to about half but does not reduce the power consumption. If you are getting better start perfomance at 220V it is due to undersized wiring or poor connections in the 120 v circuit.

[Domer]

I have the SawStop Industrial. I use it in our garage. It is a great piece of equipment. I know this is a small detail but their mobile base is by far the best I have seen. I am not a big guy and I can move the 600+ pound saw with little effort.

domer

[jab73180]

They do. From a cost/value perspective I'd probably rate Grizzly as the best in the arena. I'd say you get the most bang for your buck from Grizzly, but in the end you also get what you pay for. From a bells and whistles standpoint you'll get more with a Powermatic, Delta Unisaw or the SawStop's but you will certainly pay for those extras.

what kind of bells and whistles will you get with the powermatic and delta??

[Derek H.]

Not to head off topic although I'm also a software engineer. Currently I have a small 10in table saw I use. If I had the money, a sawstop would be the saw I would buy. Table saws always had worried me so the safety would be worth it.

[Mister Pants]

what kind of bells and whistles will you get with the powermatic and delta??

From what I've seen, sturdier trunnions, better extension tables, stronger legs on the extension if you have a 52", higher quality motor, better dust control etc. It's more fit and finish than bells and whistles.

[ngabriel]

Thank you all for your comments, this is exactly the perspective I was seeking. After reading all of your posts (as well as other comments/reviews on the web), I walked away feeling that the 1.75HP SS would suit my needs well. I stopped at my local woodworking store today (with the intention to price, not buy) and a cool thing happened. They had two units on the floor, the 3HP Professional SS and the 3HP Commercial SS. While checking them out, the manager offered me 20% off the 3HP Professional if I took the floor-model. Now normally I wouldn't go for something like this, but this wasn't BestBuy and the unit was pristine (no nicks, dings, scratches, never demo'd, ...). It came with the professional T-Glide fence, 52" rails, extension table, and the floor-stand. In fact the manager threw the floor-stand in for free. I was happy enough with my nearly $800 in savings, but it got better. Turns out that there is typically a $350 shipping fee that always gets tacked on to each SS purchase (and that is just to get the unit to the store!). Since it was already there, ta-da, no shipping costs. All I need to do now is run a 220V circuit in the shop and I'm in business. Well, at least until I decide it's time for a planer and jointer. I'm sure I'll be bugging you all again when that time comes

Thanks again!

[PaulMarcel]

Awesome score! Even if it takes a little time go get the 220V setup, it's worth it.

Do you have an electric hot water heater or electric dryer drop nearby? Easy to steal off those.

Just make sure you got the override key and manual; you'll want to follow the detailed instructions to completely calibrate it. If it was a floor model to show the saw, it may not be calibrated yet.

The world is becoming a safer place for hotdogs everywhere.

[ngabriel]

Hi Paul, first off, thank you for pointing me to Charles Neil's review. I ended up finding the video he posted and that was very insightful. I'm a big fan of Charles. Secondly, I found it interesting that you mentioned that 8/4 Purpleheart was the largest stock that you've ripped. 8/4 Purpleheart is the largest stock that I've ripped as well. I found it interesting up until the point that I realized what forum I was posting on. You wouldn't have been working on one of those end-grained cutting boards would you?

Back to SS. I definitely made sure to get my hands on the manual. Got it, reading it now... I'll check on the override key (thanks for the tip). As far as the wiring goes, I don't expect any issues. I actually just moved into to the house I'm at now and the saw is going in a small workshop/garage that is detached from the house. I don't have a good view of the wiring there yet but there may already be 220 in it. I can't tell. In the breaker box, there is definitely a 220V breaker. Scribbled next to it is "A/C" (but the A/C unit is definitely not 220!). Below that is a 110V breaker that is also labeled "A/C" and this is in fact the breaker that controls the small A/C unit in the shop. So perhaps the original owners intended to have a larger A/C unit but later changed their minds. I don't know. At any rate, the breaker box is pretty empty so even if I have to add a new breaker and circuit, it wont be that bad (and "no", there's no hot-water heater, or electric-dryer nearby ).

"The world is becoming a safer place for hotdogs everywhere." That's a good one. I'll have to remember that. Thanks for the laugh.

[PaulMarcel]

I've actually never made one of those end-grain cutting boards. Not for lack of wanting to, but assumed I would after accumulating enough 8/4 scraps. The 8/4 purpleheart was to band my assembly table

That's cool you found the video from Charles Neil. It was part of a guild video (Charles Neil's guild) but perhaps they edited it out to post elsewhere. Nice.

Well, if you are in a detached shed with a breaker box, you'll have both hots from the main panel there. Totally trivial to wire up a 220V off that. Never know, you might not even need a new breaker if that 220V for the A/C is truly unused.

[TBaiga]

Another noob's perspective here. My approach is to start with some nice Festool tools, especially the TS55 track saw (and the CT36 dust colletor, domino joiner, OF1400 router, MFT/3, RO125 sander and PS300 jig saw). Then I can start adding some needed hand tools. S2S lumber in readily available for a nominal charge where I live, and I'd probably start with a jointer and planer and cyclone...then a sawstop table saw.

My point is that as someone new (about 2 years of experience in someone elses shop) a cabinet saw is midway down my priority list. The only pieces I'd add afterwards are band saw(s), drum sander and lathe. If price is a concern, one could always splurge on the saw stop and get grizzly power tools to fill out the shop to distribute the expense and not sacrifice quality/value to any great extend. Sure it's not PM, but I imagine even PM owners would agree with this logic.

I'm finding that making equipment priority lists and shop outfitting to be a useful planning endeavor. Good Luck!

[ChetlovesMer]

Thank you all for your comments, this is exactly the perspective I was seeking. After reading all of your posts (as well as other comments/reviews on the web), I walked away feeling that the 1.75HP SS would suit my needs well. I stopped at my local woodworking store today (with the intention to price, not buy) and a cool thing happened. They had two units on the floor, the 3HP Professional SS and the 3HP Commercial SS. While checking them out, the manager offered me 20% off the 3HP Professional if I took the floor-model. Now normally I wouldn't go for something like this, but this wasn't BestBuy and the unit was pristine (no nicks, dings, scratches, never demo'd, ...). It came with the professional T-Glide fence, 52" rails, extension table, and the floor-stand. In fact the manager threw the floor-stand in for free. I was happy enough with my nearly $800 in savings, but it got better. Turns out that there is typically a $350 shipping fee that always gets tacked on to each SS purchase (and that is just to get the unit to the store!). Since it was already there, ta-da, no shipping costs. All I need to do now is run a 220V circuit in the shop and I'm in business. Well, at least until I decide it's time for a planer and jointer. I'm sure I'll be bugging you all again when that time comes

Thanks again!

Very nice!

Congrats!

I wouldn't trade my SawStop for 10 Deltas, 5 Powermatics, and a hundred Jets.