neander.normite Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 I know this is one of those topics that get brought up all the time but my question is specific so I figured I would throw it out there. I am really wanting to build completely by hand on some projects and am not happy at all with my current planes. My 30th b-day is coming up and I need to get the list to SWMBO. Here is what I am debating. Package 1: Lie-Nielsen No 4 and 7. Package 2: Veritas bevel up smoother, jack, jointer. Package 3: Veritas skew rabbet, plow, and medium shoulder. Either way I go by Christmas I should have a fairly complete specialty and bench plane set so some may say just pick one and go with it, but I'm kind of in the paralysis by analysis mode right now. Any input would be great. BTW, I know package one vs. two is kind of the bevel up bevel down argument, but I'm just not sure which would be better to completely work by hand, seeing that I don't really have the space for 30 bench planes to set around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 I know this is one of those topics that get brought up all the time but my question is specific so I figured I would throw it out there. I am really wanting to build completely by hand on some projects and am not happy at all with my current planes. My 30th b-day is coming up and I need to get the list to SWMBO. Here is what I am debating. Package 1: Lie-Nielsen No 4 and 7. Package 2: Veritas bevel up smoother, jack, jointer. Package 3: Veritas skew rabbet, plow, and medium shoulder. Either way I go by Christmas I should have a fairly complete specialty and bench plane set so some may say just pick one and go with it, but I'm kind of in the paralysis by analysis mode right now. Any input would be great. BTW, I know package one vs. two is kind of the bevel up bevel down argument, but I'm just not sure which would be better to completely work by hand, seeing that I don't really have the space for 30 bench planes to set around. If you want to build completely by hand the planes will only get you so far. You will also need a few crosscut and rip saws, chisels and some layout and marking tools. I recently just setup and all hand tool shop and boy did it add up quick. One suggestion would be to get the Veritas BU smoother, Jack with two irons, camber one for rough removal of stock and leave the other for jointing, a decent set of inexpensive chisels and the Vertias saw set. Add a couple layout tools and this should get you started at least building some smaller pieces. Good Luck! P.S. It would not hurt to join the Hand Tool School Shannon Rogers does an awesome job, this is by far the most important part of my all hand tool shop! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neander.normite Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Thanks for the input. I guess I should have mentioned that I am pretty well set up in the other areas, and even have some planes. Just not happy with the ones I have and I would prefer to get some nice ones and work wood vs. working on the planes. Got chisels, saws, layout and marking equipment, all stuff that I have been using in my "hybrid" shop, but lacking in the quality bench plane and specialty plane area. I have heard that the bevel up aren't so good with taking deeper cuts, do you have any experience with this? I plan on keep the No5 I currently have and camber the blade for the real hogging if the bevel up jack can't handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Thanks for the input. I guess I should have mentioned that I am pretty well set up in the other areas, and even have some planes. Just not happy with the ones I have and I would prefer to get some nice ones and work wood vs. working on the planes. Got chisels, saws, layout and marking equipment, all stuff that I have been using in my "hybrid" shop, but lacking in the quality bench plane and specialty plane area. I have heard that the bevel up aren't so good with taking deeper cuts, do you have any experience with this? I plan on keep the No5 I currently have and camber the blade for the real hogging if the bevel up jack can't handle it. That's great that you are already setup with many other tools. I could not agree with you more when it comes to hand planes. I bought a couple used planes and tried to tune them and hated it. They required way a lot more work then what I initially thought and it was not fun. I said to heck with it and bought new planes. I have the veritas BU jointer and it can take deep cuts but for roughing a board I have an LN scrub plane, you could camber the iron on your jack and it use it rough wider boards I think it would work out fine. I think most hand tool woodworkers who have been doing it for sometime prefer to use a not 6 (fore plane) to rough wider boards, I however don't have one yet. Here is the list of planes that I started with; LV No 4(not BU), LV LA Jack, LV Jointer, LV router plane (with all the blades), LN Scrub and recently added a LN Low Angle Block. The cost difference between the LN and LV Jointers is significant ($75 between the LN and LV Low angle planes and $125 between the LV LA and the LN Bevel down). I was able to use both LN Jointer planes at a recent LN hand tool event and really there was no difference between the LN and LV BU planes and very little difference between the LV BU and the LN BD, at least not enough to justify the extra $125. Just my take, Good luck! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snichols Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I'm going to ignore your package #3 since it really isn't an "OR" question. The way I see, the either/or question has to do with package 1 or 2. Package 3 seems like something you'll need eventually but let's start with the other two. I wish I had read more Chris Schwarz before I bought some of my hand planes. If you don't read him, then you must start now (I'm guessing you do because most hand tool enthusiasts are familiar wtih him). One of his big points is that he likes bevel down planes because of the location of the adjustment knobs. Even though I have the Veritas BU Jack and Jointer, I completely agree with him. I have a Lie Nielsen #4 and it's a joy to adjust the plane iron. I still use my Veritas Jointer on every project and it's not THAT difficult or annoying to adjust the plane. However, when I was upgrading my planes I wish I had gone with package 1 instead of package 2. That said, you'll be happy either way. Both manufactuers are top-notch. Also, I've heard good things about the Woodriver planes from Woodcraft. I attended a dovetail seminar with Rob Cosman at my local woodcraft a few weeks ago. He used the Woodriver planes and swears by the new V3 series. I have the V1 #6 and it sucks. I have it set up as a fore plane with a heavily cambered Hock iron. Finally, check out Josh Clark at Hyperkitten. He has great prices on quality used tools. You have to sign up for his mailing list though because his tools don't last that long any more ever since he was "Schwarzed." Hope this helps. -Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Also, I've heard good things about the Woodriver planes from Woodcraft. I attended a dovetail seminar with Rob Cosman at my local woodcraft a few weeks ago. He used the Woodriver planes and swears by the new V3 series. I have the V1 #6 and it sucks. I have it set up as a fore plane with a heavily cambered Hock iron. I have the WR V2 #6 and I like it a bunch. I like it so much that I plan on getting a WR #5. I also heard that they are coming out with a #7 and #8 as well. What is it that you dont like about the V1? DId they make that many changes between the V1 and V2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snichols Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 The blade edge crumbled after my first sharpening, the plane adjustment mechanism jams, the mouth doesn't close tight, the lateral adjustment is too loose, but that's it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlloydparks Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Neander Norm, Go with option 1. As you transition from power tools or even keep them both of these planes will be extremely useful in your arsenal and I consider them essential. My three go to planes are a No. 5, No. 7 and No. 4 (jack, jointer, smoother). Even just having a No. 7 and No. 4 would be a workable solution. There are a lot of other places to dive into as well as you decide whether to go full hand tool or not. However, for the moment start with something that works. A Lie-Nielsen plane will work right out of the box (it will benefit from honing, but it will take wonderful shavings as is), as will a Veritas. Even Shannon (RenaissanceWW) mentioned that the Woodriver V3 wasn't quite ready to go out of the box. By the way, I am preferential to Lie-Nielsen's because they feel good in my hand. If you get a chance try out both them and the Veritas and see which one you like better. If the handle fits and you find it comfortable you are more likely to use it. That being said I do have the small plow and router plane from Veritas and they are excellent tools. That is my two cents, take it for what it is worth. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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