Making a Wooden Sword??

[sapele steve]

HI Folks: This seems rather rudimentary & perhaps easy but I will ask anyway? So, how would you go about designing & making a wooden sword for a 12 yr old? I don't want this to be real compilcated. I also don't want the final version to have any sharp edges for obvious reasons. Just wanted to run this by you guys to see if anyone had any ideas? Type of wood to use, how to "form" the wood, handle options, finishing options, etc... Thanks in advance.....

Steve

[jHop]

I went to a RenFaire a while ago that had aluminum weapons for sale. They were listed as practice weapons only, as they would not take direct impacts. While I'm not recommending you buy these when you have been asked to make them, there are some things about these examples I'd like to recommend.

First off, all the edges were rounded. Even the point was rounded and dull. This was to minimize the chance of hurting anybody. (make no mistake; a five pound bar of aluminum swinging through the air hurts when it hits.)

Second, these were listed as practice items only, not sparring. The same approach should be made with the wooden swords.

As for construction of wood, all the stress is going to rest on the tang and the crosspiece, when they are simply held. When played with, the stress will go all along the sword. Traditional metal construction calls for the blade and the tang to be of one piece, fitted through the crosspiece, and placed inside or wrapped inside the hilt, and capped with a pommel. Depending on the style you choose, the pommel can be round, oval, fist shaped, ornamental, or basic. The hilt was sometimes a hollow tube of wood, and sometimes two halves of wood that were wrapped in leather and/or wire until the hilt was firmly secured and the basic shape was achieved.

Translating this to wood, I'd recommend building the crosspiece as two pieces, with a half-lap where the blade and hilt will go. The blade and hilt should be made from one piece, keeping an eye on grain. You could peg the two halves of the crosspiece to each other, including one peg through the joint where the three pieces of wood meet. i'd say the wood should be no less than 1/4 inch at the edges, and no more than 1 inch thick. If you use the basic Longsword design (think the Kevin Costner "Robin Hood"), then I'd argue 3/4 inch thick at the ridgeline / center line, and taper down to 3/8 inch at the edges. This particular sword should be less than four inches wide, but can run 28 inches long.

On the other hand, a pirate style cutlass can be as short as 15 inches long, slightly curved to majorly curved (the actual examples range from a mere one inch offset of the point from the center line to approaching the scrimshaw design: six inches or more offset from the centerline.) The idea was that the cutlasses used by many pirates of the colonial age would be quick to draw from their belts, and light enough that they could be held in their teeth, if necessary. The curved edges aided in (among other things) maintaining motions. True, it provided more surface area for cutting, but that was a side effect. The actual curve was easier to guide into and out of belts or scabbards.

Getting back to the wooden style, you could shape the crosspiece from a single 2x4, but that will be fairly thin, in my opinion. However, you should not need to go larger than a pair of 2x4s laminated together. (especially since the 2x4s will be closer to 3 inches in width...) The hilt has several design factors, depending again on which style you go for. The "Bastard Sword" of most fantasy Role Playing Game systems is often called a hand and a half sword, meaning the hilt is long enough to use both hands to hold it (providing extra stability, control, and strength) but light enough that it could be used one handed as a regular thing. Claymores, on the other hand (no pun intended), have a hilt that is long enough for more than two hands to use. (these were, in fact, designed strictly as two-handed weapons; most who wielded them did not even bother with a shield. The few who did only used bucklers, which buckled to the arm and were usually round disks of leather and wood maybe 8" across.)

I'd go for a long grain, straight grain, and a wood that has good strength over longer spans. Ash comes to mind, as well as pine and oak. (My experience with more woods is fairly limited. I hesitate to suggest materials I'm not familiar with.)

while you can use plywood for a pattern, I'd avoid it because of the thickness of the various plys. You don't want a sharp edge cracking off and gashing some poor kid in the neighborhood.

A basic Google search for images of swords will yield many good examples. I would suggest using the following keywords: scimitar, broadsword, cutlass, rapier, Khopesh (if you are up for a challenge), falcata, Gladius (the Roman style, this may actually be easier to start with as it is traditionally 5 fingers wide across the blade, and no longer than 25 inches from tip to pommel), and katana.

We are all familiar with the fact that there are many different styles out there. I'd also recommend looking at several companies offerings for ideas. Some companies I'd recommend are Starfire Swords (starfireswords.com) and The Noble Collection (noblecollection.com). The latter I have ordered from in the past, however, they have focused more on themed products over reproduction weapons in recent years.

[HolzMechaniker]

Might I suggest the Bokken, Here is a bokken web site

Oak would break eventually

Lignum Vitea would be a very ominous item.

[ChetlovesMer]

My uncle was a kendo-type-guy. Actually he was into all kinds of martial arts (although interestingly enough he was a total failure at marital arts... go figure.) Anyway, he built a practice sword that was essentially a bunch of strips of bamboo, I think 4 of them, they were bound together and then covered with a leather skin. It made a cool sound when you’d whack something with it. But it didn’t really hurt. He used this in practice and they would really go at it. Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but there is a pretty good webpage on this sort of thing.

http://www.kendo-guide.com/kendo_stick.html

[TimV]

Hi Steve,

My 13 yr old son cut one out last year at a boy scout meeting on a bandsaw. He used a 1x pc of pine and was basically a square profile. But then this winter, I was trying to pursuade him to "come work in the shop with me". You know how that is... I used the pretense of making a new sword and shield. He jumped at that idea and so did my 9 yr old daughter. We used a pc of 3/4 ply for the shield. I wanted to make a circle shield with a banding with small spikes but he wanted a simple upsideside down house shape. He cut it on the bandsaw and we applied a simple plastic drawer handle on the back side to hold it. He painted it. Then for the swords we used a pc of 2x4 construction lumber. His was about 24" long. First thing we did was to mount it on the lathe and turned the handle round and left a larger rounded piece at the base of the handle. Then we we did the cutting on the bandsaw. We cut the angles by tilting the table of the bandsaw and making stopped ripped cuts, 4 of them. Then we used a hand saw to cut those pieces off at the hilt. Then he made two more cuts on the bandsaw to define the tip. We then used a belt sander to refine the tip and clean up the cut marks along the blade. This was like sharpening the blade. That's what he called it.

I'll post some pics tonight when I get home. It really turned out great and both of them made most of it. (I did the angled cuts on the BS, I felt more comfortable.)

Tim

[sapele steve]

WOW! Thanks for all of the excellent replies. Not only did I learn a lot about swords in general but am also on the road to making a nice keepsake for my grandson! I mean if I can't make this sword now, I might as well give up woodworking! LOL

Steve

P.S. Tim: I can't wait to see those pictures........

[TimV]

P.S. Tim: I can't wait to see those pictures........

Hi Steve, sorry it took so long to get these photos. I was teaching a woodwork merit badge for my son's boy scout troop this weekend... Anyway here's the photos. My daughter and I made the smaller one after the larger one. I like this one better because I came in from the edge of the hilt with the angled cuts on the bandsaw. It looks better to me.

Tim

[sapele steve]

Thanks Tim! Looks like a very nice project & I bet that the kids will get a lot of use our of those swords. I did a search on YouTube & was surprised at how many people are making swords. There are some very good videos on there. Check it out if you get a chance. Thanks again.....

Steve

[mdhills]

I wasn't into woodworking as a kid, but the only thing I now recall making was a wood sword. I made it from redwood, which I thought looked cool. Don't make it out of redwood; it doesn't look cool after the first crossed blades...

If your grandson will be practice sparring with it, I'd definitely recommend some sort of crosspiece to protect the fingers (and any friends should have similar). I have a scar on a knuckle from crossing broomsticks with a buddy.

Now, on to other matters;

- If you're willing to give up on making it a piece of art, a 12-year old can certainly wield a mean file to shape some of the design.

- If he really likes to play with swords, might be worth making sparring swords/weapons -- I've seen some sort of re-enactment group down at a local park. Looks like all of the weapons have foam to blunt the edges.

Matt

PS--you are checking with the mom, right?

[jHop]

There are several groups to choose from if you are going to make a reenactment weapon. They all have varying levels of authenticity, rules of creation, and materials allowed.

If you are going by the purest form of recreation, then I'd recommend the SCA (Society of Creative Anachronists). These guys are the ones wearing actual chain mail or plate mail in the boiling sun, wielding actual metal weapons, and having a ton of restrictions and rules. (You are wearing and wielding real - for the most part - arms and armor.) They are just as concerned about safety as accuracy. But it's not just getting into costume, you need to get into character. They have kingdoms scattered across this country, and each runs their own set of events within the larger scope.

Then, you have Dagorhir. These guys take pipe insulation and PVC, and sometimes just large batts of foam used for seat cushions wrapped around thin PVC, for weapons, and grade their armor based off color-coded clothing. They are aimed more for the younger crowd getting into reenactments.

If all you want to do is talk about it, then I'd go to a local book store (not a major chain) or a local gamers store (non-video games) and talk with the manager or owner about an RPG session. These are Role Playing Game sessions, usually hosted by late teen to early twenty - somethings, although I know of several with mid forties playing. There are several different systems out there, ranging from original Dungeons and Dragons to d20, Sword and Sorcery, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons version 4, Rifts, GURPS (Generic Universal Role Playing System), and more. They are primarily paper and pen games, and most gather at either someone's house or a local gaming store for a while. Some use miniatures, some don't. Most know of at least one group that gets into LARP - Live Action Role Playing, which is kind of a blend of the three versions.

LARP groups are not as common, although there are dozens per city. (Finding them is half the fun.) They are a blend of all three of the previous groups I've mentioned. The number one rule they have, from what I have found out, is NO CONTACT. I capitalize this to stress how important this is to them. You can show up with recreation weapons, but you absolutely are not allowed to touch anybody with them. They have special rules and forms regarding what is allowed and how it is to be used. For example, one group I learned about allowed it's members to wear metal weapons, but when it came time for combat, everybody grabbed whiffle bats wrapped in foam as their swords. There are LARP groups for just about every RPG system out there, so it can get confusing.

There are several other groups, as well. Before jumping in to one group or another, simply because they were mentioned, I'd check out the various websites (if I remember right, each kingdom maintains its own website, but I don't remember about Dagorhir), and attend a few Renaissance Faires locally. The weather is starting to break here, so you should start seeing flyers and hearing ads on the radio for them. Their usual season seems to run May (roughly Memorial Day) through early October. (The peak locally seems to be August-September-ish.)

Some links for you: www.sca.org

Pennsic War 40

Dagorhir

And if all you want is just a basic "fence post" sword, then go for it! Nothing says you can't have fun in your own back yard.

[sapele steve]

Hi Folks: Just an update. I finally finished the sword! I think that it came out really nice. At least the grandson loved it! I made it out of Cherry (main body); Mahogany (side handles); Initials (Sapele): & raised top nob (Purple Heart). I have been trying to post some pictures to show you guys but have not been able to do so? I keep getting an Error that says: "This file was too big to upload". I posted in the Forum about how to post pictures but have not heard anything back yet. So, stay tuned for pictures......Steve

[Dave H]

On my digital camera when I go into the menu it shows different sizes of pictures the biggest has way to many pixels. So I put it on e-mail photos which on mine is the smallest, hope this helps.

[sapele steve]

OK, I think that I figured this out! So, here are a few pictures for you guys. Let me know what you think? Thanks, Steve

[TimV]

Wow, great job! Now your grandson can protect "King" William and Pricess Kate!

Tim

[sapele steve]

Hi Tim: Thanks so much for the compliment! I am not sure how far he'd get with that sword but it might be worth a try. I wonder if people are going to follow the divorce as closely as they followed this ridiculous wedding??? Geesh.........

Steve

[jHop]

Nice job!

[sapele steve]

Thanks AJ, much appreciated! I rally doubt that I will be making one of those anytime again soon as it took lots of time for such a small project. Unless another Grandson ask me of course!!

Steve

[harryangel69]

It is probably a little late, but I used to make wooden novelty weapons for some people and I would run the the wood across the blade at an angle. This would create a hollow grind effect. It is kind of an old school setup. Not many people do it anymore, because it is a good way to get hurt quick. It takes a lot of scrap to get the right height and angle, but it looks cool in the end.

[sapele steve]

Hi Chad: Maybe it's just me but I really don't know what you mean by "would run the the wood across the blade at an angle" & "create a hollow grind effect"? Could you explain this in more detail or via a picture of what you mean? Thanks, Steve

[Beechwood Chip]

Hi Chad: Maybe it's just me but I really don't know what you mean by "would run the the wood across the blade at an angle" & "create a hollow grind effect"? Could you explain this in more detail or via a picture of what you mean? Thanks, Steve

Marc has a video on this technique to make coves, and another on the jig he uses. Both are in the Guild area I imagine Chad is talking about the same thing to make small coves or hollows.

Essentially, you make a guide to pass the piece over the table saw blade at an angle, so the blade cuts a curved hollow instead of a square dado. You start with the blade very low and raise it a little bit with each cut. Your guide should hold both sides of the board.

[sapele steve]

Thanks Chip: However, what does that have to do with making a Sword? I watched the video & making those coves looks like a great technique but I still don't get what it has to do with a sword? I guess that I am missing something here & it wouldn't be the first time! Steve

[jHop]

It's another way to make the sword realistic. Most swords do not have perfectly straight edges to the blades, where they taper to the actual cutting edges. When the swords were crafted by blacksmiths, these were ground down using both hand files (those who had lots of tough work for their multiple apprentices) and large grinding wheels. As you know from modern grinding of tools, grinding creates a hollow grind, that "cupping" in the metal resulting from a straight hunk of metal coming into contact with a round sharpening surface.

Modern sword makers do also use grinding wheels, but most use belt sanders for rough (and quicker) grinding on the edges.

Old school sword makers do sometimes use grinding wheels (both the smaller 6 and 8 inch variety, and the much larger variety that are very difficult to come by), but most make do with files and sharpening stones. These folks charge a lot more for the hand made aspect of their work.

To do this on a table saw (the only circular blade you should attempt this with), you need to set two rails in parallel across the cutting area of the blade. This should be at an angle, which can vary from 15 degrees to 45 degrees. (make test cuts on scrap before deciding which you prefer.) And you will be working just the edge, which increases danger and difficulty. It might be easier to cope the sword blade out of the stock, then cut to size.

I should add I've never tried this approach, so I'm not the expert you should be talking to about this method.

all of this is secondary, however, to the fact that this adds more realism to the next sword you make. (whenever that may be.) Still a nice job on your sword!

[sapele steve]

A J: So I think what you are saying is that the coving technique is used to "shape" the beveled edges of a sword in order to make it look more realistic, is that correct? Whereas I used a combination of planning the edges & sanding. Bottom line is that one would have to use the coving method to define the 4 beveled edges of the sword, then sand until one got the desired shape. I am trying to picture how this would look & how exactly one would set up the initial operation on the table saw. If anyone has any pictures of this that they could post, that would be great! Thanks again & I am glade that you liked the way my sword came out.

Steve