mking1@sbcglobal.net Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Is there any down side to purchasing a new 3hp powermatic table saw? I can't think of any reason not to buy one except for the price but you do get free shipping. Miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Price would certainly be a factor. How it compares to comparably priced saws like the SawStop, Unisaw, and General would be also be a consideration if I were saw shopping. How will it be used, hobby or pro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawSucker Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 The downside that I can think of is that the Powermatic is probably an import. For the same amount of money you can get the more advanced American made Delta Unisaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mking1@sbcglobal.net Posted May 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Knotscott: I’m just a hobbyist but I like well-made tools and while the price a consideration $3K or so isn’t a problem. I’m not a sawstop fan for several reasons although the safety factor is ok but not enough to sway me one way or another. And the delta unisaw does look good. I might give it another look. General tools I know nothing about and do not know anyone who has a general tool of any kind. I’ll do some more looking. Sawsucker: Thanks for the warning. I just called the powermatic customer service and was told the saws are make in Taiwan. So the unisaw is looking better. Miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Miles - General is a family owned Canadian business, and the General line is manufactured in Quebec AFAIK....considered by many to be first rate industrial tools. They also own the General International line that is primarily made in Taiwan/Asia, and is more on par with Jet, Grizzly, Shop Fox, Steel City, and other decent imports. FWIW, I'm with you on the Saw Stop....I found his heavy handed marketing antics to be deplorable, and haven't quite gotten beyond it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 These days its getting harder and harder to find a tool that is truly "made in the USA". Even the companies that use that as a selling point still get a good amount of their parts from overseas, and the assembly is done in the US. So if being US-made is one of your criteria, your shopping list gets a whole lot smaller, as does the variety of options. Of course there's no shortage of foreign-made garbage on the market but I wouldn't say its all bad. My shop is filled with Taiwanese iron and things are working quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sancho Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Check out Steel City Tool Works. if I were to buy a new saw, I would look pretty hard at one of theirs. http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pdf/USA2011_lowres.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keggers Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 There is absolutely nothing wrong with some imports. Grizzly, for example, makes excellent products. I've used them for years with no complaints. Their customer service is top notch. All my Grizzly machines required a little assembly. Some more than others. So I guess you could say that all my Grizzly equipment was, in part, made in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 If you want a delta unisaw made in america you will have to buy a used saw as all their new ones are made overseas. If I were to plunk down 3k for a brand new saw today I would buy a General (ie the one made in Canada not the International one). They make good saws and are still made in North America at least. If you don't care about whether or not you are buying an import then certainly powermatic and delta are viable contenders. I just don't like how their quality control has drifted since they went import, but their saws still cut wood and a 3hp saw will cut just about anything you are going to throw at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawSucker Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 If you want a delta unisaw made in america you will have to buy a used saw as all their new ones are made overseas. I've got to say that I'm very troubled with the responses that some of you are giveing here. So read this, it was written in January of this year. Delta Unisaw Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keggers Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 These days its getting harder and harder to find a tool that is truly "made in the USA". Even the companies that use that as a selling point still get a good amount of their parts from overseas, and the assembly is done in the US. So if being US-made is one of your criteria, your shopping list gets a whole lot smaller, as does the variety of options. Of course there's no shortage of foreign-made garbage on the market but I wouldn't say its all bad. My shop is filled with Taiwanese iron and things are working quite well. Very true Marc. Below is a comment taken from the internationaltool.com website pertaining to the Delta Unisaw. Assembled and Machined in the U.S.A. The new Unisaw is proudly made in the U.S.A. of foreign and domestic components in our Jackson, Tennessee facility. In this product, we use cast-iron milled and machined in the U.S.A. and include an American-made Marathon Motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawSucker Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Very true Marc. Below is a comment taken from the internationaltool.com website pertaining to the Delta Unisaw. Assembled and Machined in the U.S.A. The new Unisaw is proudly made in the U.S.A. of foreign and domestic components in our Jackson, Tennessee facility. In this product, we use cast-iron milled and machined in the U.S.A. and include an American-made Marathon Motor. Tell the whole story you guys, The Unisaw currently is made from about 80 percent domestic parts. Thats a pretty high percentage, and very respectable in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikepdarr Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 If you have a budget of $3k then why not consider the Hammer K3 Winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mking1@sbcglobal.net Posted May 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Thanks to all for the information. Today I am going to Woodcraft and take another look at the Powermatic and Delta saws. Just to be fully forthcoming and open I’m ditching my Craftsman hybrid saw so either the Powermatic or the Delta will be a much-needed improvement. So if anyone wants it just come and get it, no charge. I have the manuals, multiple sets of homemade inserts (the original inserts warped) and it has a replaced rip fence because the original fence wouldn’t lock down. The other main problem is that it eats belts and spits them out. There is an alignment problem between the motor and the arbor shaft that I no longer want to fuss with. Had I know anything about woodworking five or six years ago I would not have purchased the saw. When I was a little boy anything named “Craftsman” was good. So much for the good old days. Miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawSucker Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 What model number is the Craftsman ? Too bad I don't live close to you, I would think that I could solve the belt problem with a straight edge on the pulleys, the fence is probably an easy fix by adjusting the fence alignment screws in or out. If the handle goes down all the way but isn't grabing the rail, then adjust the screws in. If the handle won't go all the way down and into the lock position, then back the screws out. Anyway, let us know what you decide to bring home, and ofcourse we will need pictures, or it didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Tell the whole story you guys, The Unisaw currently is made from about 80 percent domestic parts. Thats a pretty high percentage, and very respectable in my opinion. I am not sure where that 80% figure is coming from exactly. The article throws it out rather casually. Is that 80% numerically? 80% by weight? Are they counting nuts and bolts? How approximate is this figure or how exact? Without any further information it is not terribly helpful. What we do know is that the company is wholly owned by a non-american firm and they admit to buying and manufacturing at least some percentage of the parts overseas. They also admit that none of the parts are made on site, but rather the current facility just bolts things together so there is no quality control coming from the people who are actually seeing how things fit together. Personally if I were spending that amount of money I would be hesitant to buy saw in which an unknown 20% could be made from cheaper metals with higher rates of impurities. I would want a saw where the people who bolt it together have control over the casting manufacturing and have a reputation for quality. But again this is just me being picky. I think it is a given that a saw made in asia will cut wood, and will probably do it just fine. But I like to support domestic businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 I can see this quickly down spiraling into a foreign vs domestic debate, which I am really getting tired of seeing. I also consider that firmly within my "no politics" policy. The original poster asked if there were any disadvantages to buying a 3HP Powermatic saw. Despite what some may think, being made from foreign materials IS NOT a functional disadvantage. Its just a fact. Of course some may see being foreign-made as a negative because of their personal buying habits and they are certainly entitled to that opinion. But let's try to keep this on target and stay focused on what the original poster asked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mking1@sbcglobal.net Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 What model number is the Craftsman ? Too bad I don't live close to you, I would think that I could solve the belt problem with a straight edge on the pulleys, the fence is probably an easy fix by adjusting the fence alignment screws in or out. If the handle goes down all the way but isn't grabing the rail, then adjust the screws in. If the handle won't go all the way down and into the lock position, then back the screws out. Anyway, let us know what you decide to bring home, and ofcourse we will need pictures, or it didn't happen. The model that I have is very similar to the current model 21833. The pulleys are aligned, as much as possible but the shafts (motor and arbor) are not parallel by just enough to cause the belt to work its way off after some period of operation. The standard flat belt with the grooves on the underside last for almost a year but as soon as the grooves are warn off the belt slips down to the motor’s shaft. So I tried another type of belt (the high-dollar anti-vibration type cannot remember the name) and it lasted perhaps 10 min. The fence body was made out of aluminum and the threaded blind hole that held the screw that was responsible for adjusting the handle’s holding tension striped out. Nothing to do except to replace the unit and I did with a model made by Steel City. I found out the craftsman and steel city’s saws where made in the same facility so I guessed that the mounting holes would lineup and they did. By the way, are you related to the SawSucker family from East New Mexico? Sure, pics will follow as soon as I settle on a model. I did go to woodcraft today but they didn’t have a delta saw to look at so I just look at the powermatic. And while reviewing all the ins-and-outs of the saw I discovered that the throat plate was a very intricate design with all sorts of cutouts and such on the underside that would make it almost impossible to make my own zero clearance throat or insert plates. What a dilemma? I guess that I’ll have to go to Rockler tomorrow and checkout their delta saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 I actually have the PM2000 and I just bought a few of the melamine-coated phenolic inserts. I reserve one for standard cuts and one for wider cuts and bevels. Its also nice to have one dedicated to 45 degree cuts. But if you're doing a lot of beveling at odd angles and you need the zero clearance, buying them pre-made is indeed going to get expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawSucker Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Well I guess that I can't blame you for giveing up on the Craftsman after hearing all that. I looked at Woodcrafts prices and they seemed a bit high on the two saws that your looking at. ACME Electric Tool Crib of the North has better prices with free shipping. If you don't want to deal with the shipping, perhaps you can use their prices to negotiate a better price with Woodcraft or Rockler. No relation to any Sawsuckers, I chose the name because I redesigned a Contractor's table saw dust hood for under the saw. The cheap plastic generic shallow trayed table saw dust hood thats been about the only thing available to the pubilc for many years is a joke. Sawsuckerproject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mking1@sbcglobal.net Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 I actually have the PM2000 and I just bought a few of the melamine-coated phenolic inserts. I reserve one for standard cuts and one for wider cuts and bevels. Its also nice to have one dedicated to 45 degree cuts. But if you're doing a lot of beveling at odd angles and you need the zero clearance, buying them pre-made is indeed going to get expensive. Thanks for your reply about the inserts. Your just made me realize that I don’t need a zero clearance insert for each dado width I’ve ever made. So once again you the wise man has demonstrated, without demeaning or embarrassing anyone, that sometimes we are just too obsessive about our tools and our craft to fully understand our real needs. So, if any one out there has a craftsman hybrid table saw and needs a few inserts I have a wall full of them. I might add they are of high quality, homemade and store bought inserts made from either plywood or the UHMW stuff, of which some have been labeled saw blade or dado stack width used but many are blank ready for your own obsessions. So, Its off too Rockler to look, once again, at the delta saw for a last review. Miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawSucker Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 sometimes we are just too obsessive about our tools and our craft to fully understand our real needs. Miles. Thats why I still use a Contractor's table saw, even after about 30 years of woodworking I see no real pressing need for a Cabinet table saw yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mking1@sbcglobal.net Posted May 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Well, I’ve made the choice: It’s a Delta. I went to the Woodcraft store; we have two stores here in Houston and one north and one south of me. They had the Delta saw so after brushing off the salesman’s attempt to sale me the SawStop by describing some grizzly stories of a past non-SawStop user I said: I’ll take this one. It was a tough decision and it could have gone either way both the Powermatic and Delta saws are great saws and would be happy to own either. So, you might ask; what was the deciding factor in choosing the Delta over the Powermatic? Was it the Powermatic saw’s complex insert configuration that ensured that I would have at purchase inserts instead of making my own? No, someone has already pointed out to me that I only needed three inserts at most. Was it because one was more American made than the other? Again, no, both companies have a long track record of producing quality tools. So, when you boil it all down it was a simple matter of it felt right. Nothing scientific or analytical about it at all, it was just a feeling. I still have to wait a week or so for the delivery so pictures will be posted tout-de-suite. Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawSucker Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Ofcourse I'm going to say good choice, and I supose that I better leave it at that. Anyway, have you got electrical ready for it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted May 8, 2011 Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Congratulations! Have you got your first project picked out for your new saw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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