Shop space

[JMadson Custom Wood]

I've been semi-pro for about six years. In the next year or two, I plan on going full time. My biggest concern is space. Right now I work out of my garage and the space is ok. If I go full time, I'll need more.

I'm looking to find out costs, not exact, just enough to get my head around it. How realistic is it that I could work without employees and afford a small shop?

Background: I usually make built-ins and and some furniture, not high-end but simple pieces for middle income homes. I can fill in with some crown and trim projects. My hometown would probably be above average for real estate costs.

Thanks

Joe

[areynoldsre]

It's possible - depends on can you get enough work to fill the shop and what can you rent space for. I know of a couple of one man shops in my area and we're way above average on real estate costs. One of the guys I know does gallery quality furniture and marquetry and another bought a house outside the city limits that had a detached shop.

I won't say it's not possible but I'd think that is on the harder rather than easier side.

[duckkisser]

look around there might be some old barn or outbuilding that you can snatch up for a low price in rent. lots of farmers rent out there barn in teh winter so that people can park their RV over the winter.

[Jfitz]

You obviously have the ability to work out of your garage 'as is', at least for now. The reasons for getting a larger space, IMO, would be threefofold - efficiency, scale, and quality of life (separating your business from your house). The reduction of wasted time could make you more efficient - assuming you can find work for your free time. A larger space could allow you to bring on additional workers (scale) as needed, which could be more problematic in a garage. Only you can answer the quality of life question, and how much that is worth to you.

I would suggest that you start by scoping out possible sites to see what the cost might be - and factor in any 'betterments' (power, ductwork, insulation, etc) that it might need. This should give you a rough idea of the cost. Also figure in travel to/from the site. Popping between the garage and the house has its benefits; driving over to a shop to crank out one or two cuts would not be profitable.

You should also estimate what you might possibly get for revenue for the 2 situations - what you could accomplish with your current space, and what you could do with a more appropriate shop. This is probably just an 'efficiency' exercise, how efficient would a larger shop be. That should give you an idea if the increased shop space is 'worth it'. Increased revenenue is always good, but it should be profitable revenue.

I would also recommend breaking down all the activities that go into one of your jobs, and see if there are any that would be better outsourced. For instance - one item I see mentioned a lot is the making of drawers. In many instances, it's more cost effective to buy them than to make them. There are many online retailers that are set up just for making drawer boxes. This could help in both situations - i.e. making your current space more efficient, or making your new shop layout more efficient.

You didn't touch on why think the increased space would be needed over what you currently have - would it be for a finishing room? storage? more, or larger, machines? Would it help eliminate wasted time - rolling tools around on mobile stands, reconnecting DC hoses every time you switch machines, constantly resetting machines instead of leaving them set up for dedicated purpose, etc? The improvement in efficiency (eliminating wasted time) might be worth it, assuming your new found time can be filled with working on new jobs.

How about building a detached shop on your property? Is that an option? Or even adding off your current garage for new space for storage, or for a finishing room?

[tombuhl]

Others touched on the quality of life pros and cons of separate space.

Unless you foresee adding employees, my concern would be that the cost of new space (and initial set up) is fixed overhead. Due and payable every month in busy and slow times. You can look at it as though the first (or more) jobs every month go to paying rent before you get anything for yourself.

For that overhead you can gain efficiency in many ways by having more room.

Big question might be how much work you can sell and produce in either scenario. Then there is the question of how you like to work. You need to turn cash flow and profit to continue, but you also need to live with yourself and hopefully enjoy what you do and how you do it.

Wishing you the best in your endeavor.

[JMadson Custom Wood]

My current situation is almost impossible and a little dangerous. We live in a very suburban, residential area. Trailers parked in the drive, lots of noise and finishing exhaust would not be acceptable. I'm landlocked and can't expand the house either. Moving is not in the wife's plan anytime in the next 25 years.

I guess I'm just looking for a simple, safe and efficient work space. A larger, permanent table saw, a small finishing area, mitre saw bench, set-up table, and a desk would be great; additional storage would be a bonus. I'm assuming to do this, I'll need to hire a helper to keep me busy with customers. I might put out an ad to see if someone needs to do the same as me and would like to share a space, does that seem to be a feasible plan?

[dwacker]

My current situation is almost impossible and a little dangerous. We live in a very suburban, residential area. Trailers parked in the drive, lots of noise and finishing exhaust would not be acceptable. I'm landlocked and can't expand the house either. Moving is not in the wife's plan anytime in the next 25 years.

I guess I'm just looking for a simple, safe and efficient work space. A larger, permanent table saw, a small finishing area, miter saw bench, set-up table, and a desk would be great; additional storage would be a bonus. I'm assuming to do this, I'll need to hire a helper to keep me busy with customers. I might put out an ad to see if someone needs to do the same as me and would like to share a space, does that seem to be a feasible plan?

I think in today's economy its going to be a tough nut. My question would be how big is your garage now? Why not empty it out, organize and stay small? I think you're thinking to small, it takes a lot of work to pay overhead. This means you need the work and equipment to handle the work. You mention a larger permanent table saw, not sure what this means but your going to need a minimum a cabinet saw but more likely a big slider to keep production up to a point that you can cover overhead and taxes and more taxes and after you pay the taxes you have to pay the taxes. Did I mention you need the work? Look at all the little shops that are going under daily. You also MUST make sure you pay yourself ahead of even your shops landlord if you can't do this then you will loose it all and it will kill your personal relationships unless you're independently wealthy. Think long and hard before leaving the comforts of your garage.

Don

[areynoldsre]

I guess I'm just looking for a simple, safe and efficient work space. A larger, permanent table saw, a small finishing area, mitre saw bench, set-up table, and a desk would be great; additional storage would be a bonus. I'm assuming to do this, I'll need to hire a helper to keep me busy with customers. I might put out an ad to see if someone needs to do the same as me and would like to share a space, does that seem to be a feasible plan?

Start talking to everyone you know that might be interested. You never know what might show up. You might be able to get into a co-op with some other wood workers or start by renting equipment time from another shop. There are both options in my area and check into what industrial shop space there might be - you never know you might find a motivated landlord. A friend of mine found a small industrial unit for rent cheap near the airport. You might find that you have to travel well out of suburbia to find it.

[JMadson Custom Wood]

Thanks Andrew, I guess the only thing I would like to be firm on is the distance to home. I could work with others or in a dump, but I hate travel time. I'm going to start looking for houses around me with oversized, unattached garages and just start asking the owners if they want to make a few bucks.

[Beechwood Chip]

Watch out for zoning ordinances and the dreaded HOA. If you run a business out of someone else's garage, that might make it a commercial rental property. It only takes one neighbor who likes causing trouble, or who is annoyed for some reason, to wreck a good thing.

You might want to contact your new neighbors and let them know how to contact you, what you'll be doing, etc. If someone is annoyed by, say, the noise, you want them to contact you rather than making trouble. Also, who knows, you may get a new customer!

[duckkisser]

Watch out for zoning ordinances and the dreaded HOA. If you run a business out of someone else's garage, that might make it a commercial rental property. It only takes one neighbor who likes causing trouble, or who is annoyed for some reason, to wreck a good thing.

You might want to contact your new neighbors and let them know how to contact you, what you'll be doing, etc. If someone is annoyed by, say, the noise, you want them to contact you rather than making trouble. Also, who knows, you may get a new customer!

a guy next to brothers house has his own gun shop in his garage and once a year he throws a party in his driveway. might want to keep that in mind. maybe you can build some small simple projects like pencil holders that you can give to the neighbors.

[Mark Reuten]

Hi Joe,

I would suggest you read Jim Tolpin's "How to Become a Professional Cabinet Maker". He makes some very good arguments for staying in a small home based shop. He seems to have focused on a niche and refined his process.

I've been reduced to an active space of about 500 sq. ft. plus about 300-400 sq. which is either office or lumber storage for about seven years.

I would love to move to a larger space but commercial rents are just too high in my area and small boats are too marginal a business to justify the move. I do get very frustrated by the congested space but then I also enjoy my daughters and neighbours popping in to see what I'm doing throughout the day and I don't cut a cheque for a couple grand to a landlord every month plus the extra insurance I would need in a commercial space. That buys me a lot of quality of life and the ability to take time off if I feel like it.

The smaller space also keeps me from taking on too much work at any one time which is a good thing for me.

[ChetlovesMer]

Dang Mark,

You totally stole my thunder.

No, seriously, Mark's advice is very good. Do read the book "How to be a Professional Cabinet Maker." I read it. It helped me a ton. I only work out of the garage and I keep (my real job.)

One more thing to remember. I'll give you the example first. A buddy of mine had a part time business, he went full time into and it nearly killed him. It wrecked his marriage. Made him a bear to live with. His kids even grew annoyed with him. Basically, you need to avoid the "Got to make the donuts" syndrome. If you are running on a shoestring and struggling to make ends meet every month. It weighs heavily on you. The hobby you once loved can become a dreaded task that has to be done everyday. It may not happen to you, but it is a warning.

I love my tiny little cabinet business. I love working in my shop on a special project. I turn down way more jobs than I accept. My workshop is like a mistress that calls me to come cheat on real life, late at night or sometimes early in the morning before the family awakes. I love when my wife comes out to see me and is amazed by the progress I've made on some project. (Okay, maybe she feigns amazement... but she does it well, so I buy it.)

I love that I can turn down a bunch of jobs and spend a month making Christmas presents. I love that my wife is my favorite client although I never invoice her. Everyone has different dreams and different goals. But for me, staying small means I can do projects that excite and interest me, instead of projects I have to get done to keep the lights on.

I'm sorry for the ramble. I'll jump off the soapbox now and somebody else can jump on and tell me I'm nuts.

[duckkisser]

"jump on soapbox" chet you're nuts "jump down from soapbox"

all kidding aside i agree with chet i teach wood working for a living for a school but if i was relying on my own dedication to getting stuff done i would just be stressed and hate to walk into the shop. instead of something i want to do it becomes something that i have to do. i build to buy myself a new tool or supplies i don't build for a wage. so i'll make some boxes or toys that i sell and then use the money to buy myself some poly or some exotic woods. i just built like 20 items for my family each item was completely different for specific people. having christmas as a deadline and now i don't want to build anything i would rather spend my time tinkering with a project and learn at my own pace then have a deadline. spend a couple months making a box rather then doing in a day. then i'll sell the box for 30 bucks to someone who likes the project and go buy some finishes and replace the wood i used to build with.

if you can build for the love of the craft not for the money because for most people the market is just not there other wise i should get paid a thousand dollars for a cutting board:(