How is this tablesaw?

[Jtblckmaro]

Anyone used a hitachi 10cfl?

I need an upgrade badly, and this thing is a discontinued item from hitachi so might be able to afford it!

Sucks that money is such a restriction lol!

[Onboard]

James, the only thing I found in a search is the Hitachi C10FL. Assuming that is the same saw you are looking into, here is a link to four LumberJocks postings on woodworkers who purchased the C10FL and their opinions. Listed newest post at the top and oldest at the bottom. FYI.

[knotscott]

The owner comments I've seen have been mostly positive, with a mix of not so happy campers. On the plus side, it's a full size cast iron saw with an inboard belt drive induction motor, with plenty of space, heft, and power for the majority of tasks, and it has a one-piece cast arbor carriage with a blade shroud. It's a nice step up from most benchtop saws, jobsite saws, and compact saws. On the negative side, it's not 3hp as claimed...it's a 15 amp 1-1/2hp motor much like most others in the contractor saw/hybrid class, it has steel wings, an average fence, and somewhat thin sheet metal all around. Once tuned up and fitted with a good blade, it should be capable of good work. If the price is right...

[Jtblckmaro]

That's exactly the one I'm looking at, and that link pretty much made up my mind. Thanks a lot!

Definitely an upgrade from what I read. 24" rip more than doubles what I can do right now. Sad ain't it?

[PeteJr]

It will be a better saw with a high quality carbide blade. Even my 1982 Sears craftsman table saw is a good saw with a good blade.

[CubsFan]

Where'd you find it? Lowes here has them, but they're still $500 on clearance. There's a new Porter Cable table saw (that I have) that's nearly the same, but with a 30" capacity and a riving knife that's only $100 more. Use one of those 10% off Lowes coupons and you can drop the price even more.

[Jtblckmaro]

Got it at Lowe's on clearance. It was $285 out the door after a little problem at the service desk.

Took my time putting it together. Sometimes it sucks being a perfectionist, cuz damn all I wanted to do was start cutting!

Aside from my long nights at work, it took about 2 and a half hours of work over a 3 day period to get it set up.

Took a little muscle from my dead-blow to get the extension tables and fence rails level to the table, but overall it was a piece of cake to set up.

Got ahead of myself and started sending a sheet of ply through without checking the fence for square. Ended up being about 1/16 off over the length of the fence but that was an easy adjustment.

But oh my god what an improvement!

I can actually carry on a conversation while the saw is running!

I can run nice size boards through without doing a balancing act!

And it only took like 15 minutes to make a zero clearance insert unlike my POS ryobi that took an hour and a half to rig up!

All in all there's one happy little squid over here!

Ok, thanks guys, i'm done jabbering now

[elimelech12]

the lowes by me had this saw at $299 clearance about a month ago!!

[knotscott]

$285 is a nice buy on that saw. Hope you put some of the savings towards a decent blade!

Congrats!

[Jtblckmaro]

Thanks

Looking at buying a Forrest Wood Worker blade. Hear about it a lot, so how can that many woodworkers be wrong?

[Germain]

I'm very happy with my WWII blade. I'm very fortunate to also have a great sharpener locally. Contrary to what some people might say, you don't have to send the blade to Forest for sharpening. But you do have to use a top-notch sharpener. The mass production outfits likely won't do a WWII justice.

Now the big decision; thin kerf, or regular kerf?

[Jtblckmaro]

Are there any drawbacks to thin kerf?

I figure less waste, less blade wear (seems a thinner kerf will have less surface friction than a full kerf) and less heat build-up since there is less mass to retain the heat, plus a thinner blade might dissipate heat faster?

Any thoughts or tips on that would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Beechwood Chip]

I like thin kerf, but I've always used relatively low powered saws. People have reported that the blade can flex, producing imperfect cuts. I've never seen that, myself. There are stabilizers you can buy to support a thin kerf blade.

[knotscott]

Are there any drawbacks to thin kerf?

I figure less waste, less blade wear (seems a thinner kerf will have less surface friction than a full kerf) and less heat build-up since there is less mass to retain the heat, plus a thinner blade might dissipate heat faster?

Any thoughts or tips on that would be appreciated.

Thanks

Thin kerf blades can flex a bit more than a comparably made full kerf blade, but that doesn't mean they will. It's not likely to be an issue with a modern high quality blade on a good saw...emphasis on good quality. The TK's pose less resistance to the saw, which allows it to cut thicker stock with less strain, which can extend the life of the motor. The better TK's from companies like Infinity, Forrest, Freud, CMT, Ridge Carbide, Tenryu, Amana, DeWalt, Ridgid Titanium, etc., are well made with proper tensioning and shouldn't cause flutter on their own. The full kerf blades actually handle heat better due to their increased mass, but heat shouldn't be an issue in a hobby setting with normal hobbyist type volumes. There are have been several blade articles in recent years discussing how the better TK blades cut equally well as a comparable full kerf blade...Wood, American Woodworker, Fine Woodworking, and Popular Woodworking all touched on the subject. I found thin kerf blades to be really beneficial on my smaller saws, and I've never experienced flexing or vibration from a good TK. A good TK blade on a well tuned saw with low vibration and low runout shouldn't need a stabilizer...I'd only put one on if there's a runout problem to address, but note that it's more a bandaid for the root cause than a real cure.

The Forrest is a great general purpose blade, but so is the Infinity Combomax 010-150, Ridge Carbide TS2000, Freud Fusion, and a few others.

[PaulMarcel]

Interesting point about heat, Knot I never used a stabilizer on my TK WWII blade on my previous saw (and never suffered from flexing), but I wonder if a stabilizer will give the mass to hold some of the heat much like a larger blade would? Is the stabilizer all metal and have a metal-to-metal contact with the blade? If so, it would likely help with the heat, though not as much as a full-kerf blade since the heat has to travel.

[Jtblckmaro]

Hmm

I assumed that since the blade was spinning so fast that enough air could get to it to bleed the heat out faster. Full kerf mass would hold the heat more, but less blade mass does not equal less heat retention huh?

Looks like I have some real research to do before I get a quality blade.

Thanks guys, and keep em coming!

[knotscott]

The smaller/thinner mass both heats and cools faster, while the thicker kerf heats up and cools more slowly. The thicker mass of a full kerf is less likely to distort from the heat, which is one of the factors that makes them a better choice for high volume commercial use, where they're being used for long sessions without stopping. Hobbyists tend to make a cut or three of much shorter durations, which don't build up much heat, and allow time for cooling between passes...pretty much a non-issue for most of us.

Paul, I'd have to guess that the stabilizers would probably act more like a thicker kerf as far as heat dissipation goes, but I'm guessing. But they also reduce blade height capacity, and cost quite a bit for what they are...a mini blade body with no teeth. Since most decent saws and higher quality thin kerf blades don't really need them, I generally suggest not using stabilizers unless a vibration or runout problem presents itself. The odds are pretty good that you'll end up with some lunch money left in your pocket, which of course deprives the seller of lunch money, unless you apply that savings towards a better blade!

[Jtblckmaro]

You guys have mentioned runout a couple of times now. What is that?

[knotscott]

Runout at the blade is the basically amount of deviation from spinning perfectly true on the arbor. There are a few possible contribuitors to runout...flatness of the blade itself, deviations in the arbor hole, deviations in the arbor flange, deviations in the arbor shaft, and bearings and belts can come into play too. All saws have some runout...on a well behaved saw, the total runout will be neglible. If all is not well, runout can cause things like minor vibration or blade flutter that can sometimes be improved by adding blade stabilizers to dampen the vibration, but a stabilizer won't fix the root cause and won't fix bigger runout problems.

[Jtblckmaro]

The only time I've noticed vibration so far is when the motor is winding down. This thing is so smooth I've made cuts and forgot to move my coffee cup until I almost knock it over.

But if in the future I end up noticing more vibration, are there any real fixes for it?