Cabinet Back Thickness...

[went_postal]

I am building a fairly large cabinet for the laundry room. 46" wide by 34" tall. Two doors (inset) with a stile in between them.

There seems to be no right or wrong answer, but... wondering if using 1/2" for the back is overkill?

My original intent was to use 1/2" ply for the back dadoed into the top and sides and then use a 3/4" piece of ply for a french cleat to hang it. Looking around (even at the cabinets in the kitchen) it looks like 1/4" ply with a nailing strip on the INSIDE of the cabinet seems to be a popular construction method. Wondering if I should go to 1/4" backer... stick with the 1/2" back and use 1/2" instead of 3/4" for the cleat system...

Thoughts?

[DALSAW]

On the cabinets that I build. I use 1/4" ply backs with a 1/2" nailer on the top and bottom. I have never had upper cabinet break and fall off the wall. So it works well for me.

[went_postal]

On the cabinets that I build. I use 1/4" ply backs with a 1/2" nailer on the top and bottom. I have never had upper cabinet break and fall off the wall. So it works well for me.

What size screws are you using with that?

Think the 1/2" will work with the French cleat? I like the cleat because it makes hanging simple.

[DALSAW]

I use a 1" kreg screw to attach the cleat and then 2,1/2" Powerhead screws (that Rockler sells) to attach the cabinets to the wall.

[went_postal]

I use a 1" kreg screw to attach the cleat and then 2,1/2" Powerhaed screws (that Rockler sells) to attach the cabinets to the wall.

Cool. Thanks for the advise.

Is your cleat internal or external?

[DALSAW]

Not a problem, I put the cleats on externaly.

[Bobby Slack]

I like using a 3/4" back and you will never have a problem with your cabinet. Screwed, not nailed.

However .... I am experimenting with mitred cabinet boxes but if I would build a cabinet in a hurry will have a 3/4" back.

I am building a fairly large cabinet for the laundry room. 46" wide by 34" tall. Two doors (inset) with a stile in between them.

There seems to be no right or wrong answer, but... wondering if using 1/2" for the back is overkill?

My original intent was to use 1/2" ply for the back dadoed into the top and sides and then use a 3/4" piece of ply for a french cleat to hang it. Looking around (even at the cabinets in the kitchen) it looks like 1/4" ply with a nailing strip on the INSIDE of the cabinet seems to be a popular construction method. Wondering if I should go to 1/4" backer... stick with the 1/2" back and use 1/2" instead of 3/4" for the cleat system...

Thoughts?

[went_postal]

I like using a 3/4" back and you will never have a problem with your cabinet. Screwed, not nailed.

However .... I am experimenting with mitred cabinet boxes but if I would build a cabinet in a hurry will have a 3/4" back.

I have seen a lot of talk on the Internet about using 3/4" backs to give rigidity to the carcass but I would think that would be a moot point given that I will be using a face frame.

Given the size of the cabinet I am now leaning towards 1/4" just based on the size/weight of the cabinet.

I am sure my decision will be made for me based on what materials I can find at the lumber yard. =)

[Bobby Slack]

The face frame gives you a lot of strength. I am an old hardware salesperson (sold slides, hinges, kitchen accessories, etc.) and when the slides did not perform was because the cabinets were out of square. It was very strange to go to a pro's shop with a square and tell him that the cabinet was out of square.

I know that 3/4" cabinets are a total overkill but that is how I build. I saw many pros use 1/2" and that should be sufficient as well.

My point is that the 3/4" back makes the box more heavy (yes that is bad) more expensive (yes). One the other side, your box will stay true forever.

Good luck.

I have seen a lot of talk on the Internet about using 3/4" backs to give rigidity to the carcass but I would think that would be a moot point given that I will be using a face frame.

Given the size of the cabinet I am now leaning towards 1/4" just based on the size/weight of the cabinet.

I am sure my decision will be made for me based on what materials I can find at the lumber yard. =)

[went_postal]

The face frame gives you a lot of strength. I am an old hardware salesperson (sold slides, hinges, kitchen accessories, etc.) and when the slides did not perform was because the cabinets were out of square. It was very strange to go to a pro's shop with a square and tell him that the cabinet was out of square.

I know that 3/4" cabinets are a total overkill but that is how I build. I saw many pros use 1/2" and that should be sufficient as well.

My point is that the 3/4" back makes the box more heavy (yes that is bad) more expensive (yes). One the other side, your box will stay true forever.

Good luck.

I don't disagree with ANY of your points. I am firm believer that anything worth doing is worth OVER doing. =)

As I have never built cabinets of my own this is more of an experimental cabinet for me as it will be going in the laundry room. I did the layout in sketchup and even mocked up the laundry room to see how everything would look laid out.

Considering the cabinet is going to be WAY too high on the wall for my wife to use on a regular basis it is more or less just storage for stuff we don't want just laying out and about. With the 9' ceilings there is a LOT of space above the washer/dryer and putting shelves up would look too cluttered in my opinion. So... the cabinet project. =)

Next closest thing I have ever built like this is Marc's assembly table.

[Bud]

I work at a cabinet shop, we use 1/2" backs. For the wall cabinets we screw and glue the backs on with silicone, base cabinets we just use a roofing stapler. Never had any problems. I know many shops just staple on the backs of the wall cabinets as well.

[dryhter]

Quarter inch backs and French cleats

My thoughts are that a 1/4in. back is sufficient in most situations. The purpose of the back is to square up the back of the cabinet, hold the top/bottom and sides parallel ( if your material is bowed slightly ) and give some stability to the cabinet until it is installed.

The back does not square up the front. The back can be square and the front can be square and they can be out of plane to one another horizontally or vertically if the top/bottom or sides are out of square even a little bit. If you have ever tried to install "cheap" cabinets you know exactly what I mean. The three dimensional relationship between plumb, level, straight, parallel and square can be very frustrating. A ½ or ¾ in. back would do little to adding integrity to the cabinet itself. But in your situation it may be useful in supporting the shelves. ¼ in. ply does not accept drilled shelf supports well so an upgrade to a ½ in. back may be necessary in your case . I would put shelf supports clips at the back center of the case and the backside of the front center stile if adjustable shelves are used. If a fixed shelf is preferred then just screw through the ¼ in. back into the shelf.

The French cleat is screwed to the wall and the cabinet hangs off the cleat. How is that any different then using those same screws to screw through an attached screw rail secured to the cabinet? Sometimes a French cleat is necessary such as if you wanted to be able to get behind the cabinet quickly without having to remove the screws or if the wall was masonry or if the wall did not have a lot of wood in it (metal studs or two foot on center studs) to screw to and you wanted to augment the attachment point by using adhesive and what few screws you could. The other problem with using a French cleat is that the cabinet stands off the wall or if recessed you lose interior space in the cabinet or have to use more goods to get the same amount of space and it is harder to secure the back to the cabinet because of the recess.

Dave

[went_postal]

Quarter inch backs and French cleats

My thoughts are that a 1/4in. back is sufficient in most situations. The purpose of the back is to square up the back of the cabinet, hold the top/bottom and sides parallel ( if your material is bowed slightly ) and give some stability to the cabinet until it is installed.

The back does not square up the front. The back can be square and the front can be square and they can be out of plane to one another horizontally or vertically if the top/bottom or sides are out of square even a little bit. If you have ever tried to install "cheap" cabinets you know exactly what I mean. The three dimensional relationship between plumb, level, straight, parallel and square can be very frustrating. A ½ or ¾ in. back would do little to adding integrity to the cabinet itself. But in your situation it may be useful in supporting the shelves. ¼ in. ply does not accept drilled shelf supports well so an upgrade to a ½ in. back may be necessary in your case . I would put shelf supports clips at the back center of the case and the backside of the front center stile if adjustable shelves are used. If a fixed shelf is preferred then just screw through the ¼ in. back into the shelf.

The French cleat is screwed to the wall and the cabinet hangs off the cleat. How is that any different then using those same screws to screw through an attached screw rail secured to the cabinet? Sometimes a French cleat is necessary such as if you wanted to be able to get behind the cabinet quickly without having to remove the screws or if the wall was masonry or if the wall did not have a lot of wood in it (metal studs or two foot on center studs) to screw to and you wanted to augment the attachment point by using adhesive and what few screws you could. The other problem with using a French cleat is that the cabinet stands off the wall or if recessed you lose interior space in the cabinet or have to use more goods to get the same amount of space and it is harder to secure the back to the cabinet because of the recess.

Dave

The french cleat is more because I am likely to have little assistance installing said cabinet. That being the case, I have found the cleat makes it easier for leveling and installing a large cabinet by myself. And if loosing 1/2 to 3/4 is a problem.... I should be exploring other options. =)

[cosmocyb]

1/2" is more than adequate. I use 1/2" on floor standing cabinets and have never had a problem with racking or any other problem. On wall cabinets, I generally use 3/8" for HD situations and 1/4" for the rest. I use French cleats for the same reasons you do.

[dryhter]

The french cleat is more because I am likely to have little assistance installing said cabinet. That being the case, I have found the cleat makes it easier for leveling and installing a large cabinet by myself. And if loosing 1/2 to 3/4 is a problem.... I should be exploring other options. =)

Agreed the cleat does make life easier when installing by yourself, the only time the loss of a quarter in. makes any difference is when you are trying to put a 11 1/2in. plate in an 11 1/4 in. deep cabinet ;>)

[Salvadore]

Well the French cleat is only as strong as the surface it's mounted to( the back)

So if u had a 3/4 inch cleat fasted to a 1/4 inch back ur still relying on 1/4 in to carry the weight.

And with only a 1/4 inch you would'nt get much purchase (grip) with glue, screws or nails.

So take the guess work and anxiety out of the process and use 1/2 in. You'll be glad you did!

[man of wood]

If you have the 1/2 ply,,, use is, why buy more. I like the the french cleat, I use them for all my cabinets in my shop. With the size of cabinet you play on putting up it would be easier to put up and plus you will know it is up strong.

[Bobby Slack]

You mentioned one crucial thing ... inset. Because your cabinet doors will be inset, an applied back panel of 3/4 or 1/2" plus a face frame will guarantee perfect performance for years to come. The good cabinetmakers I know use at least a 1/2" applied back.