What do I need to make pens?

[minorhero]

Hello,

With the holidays coming up I am starting to think about gifts for the office. This year is the first year of a new job for me. I have never before been in an office that had actual "staff." As such there are 22 people that I would like to give gifts to if I can. Gosh even just saying it I realize that is a lot.

Ideally I would like to give something I made and I decided I should probably learn to use that darn lathe at some point so here is a good opportunity. I have a Rockwell 46-111 lathe, and a live center for the tail stock. I bought the lathe used and it came with some crapy tools but I don't plan to use them. So here is the question, what do I need to buy in order to get started turning a few pens. Obviously I need the pen hardware, but what else? What turning tools do I need? Do I need a different chuck then the 4 bladed kind you bang into one end of the wood?

I have some 6/4 rough oak that is quite dry that I was planning to trim down for turning blanks, is that feasible or do I need thicker stock? Are there any other jigs specific to pen turning that I should be aware of?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[Lawrence Brown]

You would need the kits, a mandrel, bushings for the particular kit, some kind of finish to put on them (I like the friction finishes for pens), super glue (cyanoacrylate), and some smaller turning tools. If you stick to one particular pen type, then you only need one set of bushings.

Are you anywhere near a Rockler or Woodcraft store? They have all those things in kits. If not, there are several online pen turning stores. You can start with this one. Not saying it's the best. It's just the first that came to mind:

Penn State Industries

There is rather a lot of initial outlay, so it may end up being a bit more than you want to put into these presents, but once you get the basics, they can be used for other things.

I also don't know that the oak will work all that well because it splinters so much. You'll just have to try it. But it's more than thick enough. The average pen blank is around 3/4 to 1 inch square and about 6 inches long. That's for both parts.

[pfmala]

I agree with the places to order parts. There are also many places on the Web if you search. Some have sales that beat other prices. As for the oak. I have not had any problmes with oak, I know others that have. One thing about CA glue, DON'T PUT IT ON AT HIGH SPEED, YOU'LL KILL YOURSELF. The first time I did it, it was at high speed and the smoke and smell that came off the piece made my eyes water and also made it hard to breath. Use it at slow speed with a paper towel and your finger wrapped in some type of tape. That way your finger won't get stuck to anything. Making pens is fun. 2 of my grandsons are making pens. They sell some to make money to buy more parts and have given a lot away. They also come up with some strange designs. So have fun and enjoy.

Phil Malavolta

NW Indiana

[minorhero]

It looks like all I need is a 3/4" roughing gouge, a mandrel, some glue, some kind of finish, some sand paper of different grits, the actual pen hardware along with the appropriate bushings. I don't mind buying a kit but I don't won't to buy a cheap turning tool simply because it was in a kit. If that is really all I need can anyone recommend a good gouge?

Are all the pen kits the same or are there different qualities? In that if I buy a slim line pen kit from rockler and I buy a slim line pen from some other company, will they in fact be the same pen hardware? If not can anyone recommend a good place to buy pen hardware? Is the place already linked a good place to go for pen hardware as well?

[cowchaser]

I haven't read the other responses, but I made pens for 2 years and may be able to help some. One thing you will need for sure is a pen mandrel and the bushings for the style of pen you are making. One that that is an absolutely must have is a 60 degree live center for the pen mandrel. I used a round nose scraper to turn my pens until I got down close to the bushings then switched to a skew. Your finish of course will be of your choice, I prefered CA glue and polished after that. You will also need micro mesh to sand with to get a cleaner smoother sanding. With pen turning you can go on and on, but your best place for information is www.penturners.org , but if you have any questions I will be glad to help. Atleast I may be able to give back for all the questions I have asked here.

Oh and as far as a pen kit I would buy from woodturningz.com (might be .net) or a company called arizona silohoute (im sure spelt that wrong). You can email me or pm me if you wish and I can help further if needed.

[billboard]

I think the other replies about have it covered. The pens I made, I finished them with a BLO/mineral spirit/shellac mixture. Then a couple of coats of CA glue. Then some renaisance wax to polish. They sell a press to put the hardware into the pen but I use my wooden workbench vise. If you are going to buy the pen kits in bulk, get you a bag of extra brass tubes (if you are making all of them the same). You will ruin one every noew and then.

[Lawrence Brown]

Just to clarify, when I was talking about CA glue, I was referring to using it for gluing the tubes in. I had forgotten that you can also use it for a finish. I'd never had much luck with that, but if you want to try that, it seems to work pretty well for others. Try it on some scrap first.

As far as turning tools, if you aren't doing anything fancy, You can probably get by with the 3/4 gouge. I would just get a regular spindle gouge though instead of a roughing gouge. You aren't removing all that much and you'll get a better finish. You might even want to think about 1/2, but that depends on what you want to do with it.

I rather like this set:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21551

It is a pain to have to constantly change the ends though. I myself don't have that problem because I make all my own handles and just buy the ends, but it's good steel and a good size. Anything similar to that would work fine. Regular sized handles will probably get in the way and not give you the precision you'll need, so you'll want something about 6 to 8 inches long in total length. Just don't bother with the ones where the steel is long and thin. The extra length makes them vibrate like crazy when they are that long and you never need to be that far away from your work anyway.

[Onboard]

Hello,

With the holidays coming up I am starting to think about gifts for the office. This year is the first year of a new job for me. I have never before been in an office that had actual "staff." As such there are 22 people that I would like to give gifts to if I can. Gosh even just saying it I realize that is a lot.

Just a side note. I know you recondition & restore old equipment. If you haven’t already seen this I thought you would appreciate this guys recon of the same lathe you have.

As far as contributing to your question, I don’t even have or own a lathe but here are two articles (here and here) on pen turning, and there are some videos on pen turning.

[minorhero]

Just a side note. I know you recondition & restore old equipment. If you haven’t already seen this I thought you would appreciate this guys recon of the same lathe you have.

Yep, that's my lathe alright. That fellow even has the same crapy stand that mine came with and similarly decided not to refinish the stand. I painted my lathe white though.

This is all really great advice. I have t admit I was looking at the really big turning tools because that is what I see folks turning bowls using. I never considered that a shorter handle would be better for pens. I'm not big on interchangeable tips either. Any other recommendations for tool manufacturers? Is Ashley Iles a good company for this or should I be looking for something smaller?

[Lawrence Brown]

Honestly, I pretty much just make my own tools now, but when I buy a lathe tool off the shelf, I go to Woodcraft rather than Rockler. They tend to have better prices and a little more variety. I like Rockler for a lot of things, but they just seem to be a bit light in the turning department. Something ele to keep in mind is that if you can, try to buy individual pieces rather than the sets. The sets will get you going, but they always have some shortcoming, so you end up replacing them in the long run anyway.

Sounds like if you just start with a gouge you should be good to go. Just take some extra stock and try turning some pen shapes. Don't bother with the tubes or anything: you just want to see if you can make the shapes. That should give you a good indication of whether or not you need more tools.

Actually, thinking about it, the other thing that may be useful is a thin parting too. I have one that is 1/16th inch. It does tend to make a few things easier, but you could probably get by without it for a while.

[went_postal]

Honestly, I pretty much just make my own tools now, but when I buy a lathe tool off the shelf, I go to Woodcraft rather than Rockler. They tend to have better prices and a little more variety. I like Rockler for a lot of things, but they just seem to be a bit light in the turning department. Something ele to keep in mind is that if you can, try to buy individual pieces rather than the sets. The sets will get you going, but they always have some shortcoming, so you end up replacing them in the long run anyway.

Sounds like if you just start with a gouge you should be good to go. Just take some extra stock and try turning some pen shapes. Don't bother with the tubes or anything: you just want to see if you can make the shapes. That should give you a good indication of whether or not you need more tools.

Actually, thinking about it, the other thing that may be useful is a thin parting too. I have one that is 1/16th inch. It does tend to make a few things easier, but you could probably get by without it for a while.

Glad someone finally said something about the parting tool. =)

Here is what I started with to do pens:

diamond parting tool

bowl gouge

pen mandrel

That's it. The advice I was given was to get a bowl gouge first because you can do spindles with a bowl gouge but you can't do bowls with a spindle gouge. =) I roughed out and finish cut pen blanks with the bowl gouge for months before getting a roughing gouge and spindle gouge... I still prefer to use the bowl gouge over the spindle gouge for pens though.

I am a fan of the Woodcraft European Deco pen kits... they have a small ring that goes on between the two pen halves... you NEED the parting too to get that area correct/square.

As far as pen mandrels go... I would recommend something along these lines:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2001608/2001608.aspx

I have seen some of the other ones where the shaft is a fixed length... I have done LOTS of things on this mandrel because I can shorten it's length my moving more of the rod into the headstock... I would think the fixed length ones would be too limiting.

Word of advice: do NOT over tighten the tailstock onto the end of the mandrel... it WILL bend the mandrel eventually. You can also jack up your live center pretty good by making them too tight.

[sbwertz]

I have only been turning pens since April of this year and have turned over 200 pens now. Here is a link to the easiest pen finish I have ever used. I use William Young's CA/BLO finish (CA glue and boiled linseed oil)

I am really still a beginner, but these are tips that have helped me.

Oak is not a very good wood to learn on. It is very open grained and requires that the grain be filled to give a nice finish. It also is a rather "plain" grain. I have made some pretty oak pens, but they were from areas with knots or other highly figured areas like crotch wood.

Most of my pens are turned from "found wood" Local firewood piles are a good source if you live where there are a lot of hardwood trees growing. Here in Arizona I turn a lot of mulberry, chinese elm, mesquite, texas ebony, olive, even some paloverde. I also frequent the local specialty wood store and pick up small pieces of offcut exotic lumber in pretty grain patterns. They are usually about $1.00 each and I can usually get at least 8 pens from one.

I would suggest you get some slimline kits to learn with. They are inexpensive (about $2.00 each) and easy to turn and you can use your imagination in turning them to different shapes. I get my slimline kits from Woodturningz.

One thing you really need to do is get a grinder to sharpen your tools. They have to be sharpened frequently. I use a Porter Cable 1750 rpm grinder with a Wolverine jig.

Most important, don't be afraid to log on and ask for help if you have any questions.

[jHop]

If you are going to be doing about 25 pens, you would probably be better off buying a couple of "bulk bags." These can contain anywhere from 3 to 10 of the style of pen you are going to make.

Keeping the kits similar helps cut your tool requirements down, like mandrels, bushings, tools, and kit parts.

If you can get to a Woodcraft near you for a turning class, I'd recommend it. The experience alone will help speed up your confidence.

I took a class on the Circuit Board pen a while back, and learned quite a bit. I only used three tools, and spent quite a bit of time with the micro mesh pads. One thing I was cautioned on was that the micro mesh sanding (foam) pads were not required for wood pens, but acrylics and resin pens absolutely require them.

As for pen presses, you don't absolutely need one. You can use your drill press (carefully), a couple of the handscrew clamps, or a variety of other methods. The benefit of the press is that it is consistent.

Depending on the type of kit you get, you will need a drill bit of a certain size. Most of the kits I've seen at Woodcraft take metric sizes, and seem to be either 6, 7, or 10 millimeter. And bushings vary depending on the type of kit you get. Unless you are extremely frugal and very good with your aim while turning, I'd recommend getting two or three sets of the bushings at the beginning. Some bushings can be used for different kits, so whatever one you get, MARK IT DOWN somewhere. Nothing sucks more than going out to buy another kit, forgetting what bushings you already have, and purchasing one, only to discover it's what you already have. (well, i haven't had anything suck more than that yet, anyway.)

Be sure that you vary the pens for everybody. I know this should be obvious, but a variety of pen blanks will keep it from feeling like you just purchased a bag of pens at the discount store.

Some online resources: Berea Hardwoods (they're local for me so they get listed first) [http://www.bereahardwoods.com/], Craft Supplies USA (I make most of my Christmas wish list from their catalogue) [http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/], and Woodcraft (I copied their pen turning section for the link) [http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1001056/Pen-Kits.aspx]

[samhell]

A drill press with at least a 3" quill stroke and something to hold your blanks while you drill them is always handy...

For just starting, the HSS lathe tool set from Harbor Freight is fairly inexpensive and surprisingly good quality. I have that set and a set of Sorby tools and I keep them all together. I don't notice who's logo is on the handle, they all work equally well.

I find different materials like different tools... sometimes scrapers, sometimes gouges, skews, etc. The things I reach for most are the 1/2" scraper, 1/2" skew, and 1/4" gouge. Also, Sorby makes a tool that is sort of a scraper and sort of a skew... I forget what they call it... it works awesome.

You'll need a grinder or something to keep the tools sharp. I use a WS3000 and it works great with the see through disks.

I started out with a cheap Harbor Freight lathe (the smallest one they had), the cheapest lathe tools I could find, a small benchtop drill press, a single mandrel, 7mm kits and matching drill bit and bushings. Cranked out a pile of nice pens with that cheap setup. I learned what better tools and whatnot do and have since upgraded, but it doesn't require a huge investment to start up.

I use a chuck sometimes if I am turning smaller parts. Its easier to just take the rod off the mandrel and chuck it up as deep as needed rather than drill out wood and try to make properly sized spacers. Less chance of the rod bending too, which happens if you put too much pressure from the tail/live center side... leaves you with oval shaped pens.

[carverken]

The only other advice I can give is a.... SSHHHH dont tell anyone.... another website. The IAP International Association of Penturners at WWW.penturners.org As with most woodworking sites these guys are great and very informative.

Happy Tuning

Ken

[shooterscott]

I just got into making pens about a month ago, I love it, Good luck.

[woodtinkerer]

Hello,

i was reading through this post as i would also like to start turning pens but i had a question about the lathe and mandrel. I am looking on rockler and woodcraft websites and they seems to have to styles of mandrels. They are usually stated as "Pen Turning Mandrel #1 MT" or "Pen Turning Mandrel #2 MT"

Does anyone know the difference between the #1 and #2? How do you know which one will attatch to your lathe?

[Mystyk]

Hello,

i was reading through this post as i would also like to start turning pens but i had a question about the lathe and mandrel. I am looking on rockler and woodcraft websites and they seems to have to styles of mandrels. They are usually stated as "Pen Turning Mandrel #1 MT" or "Pen Turning Mandrel #2 MT"

Does anyone know the difference between the #1 and #2? How do you know which one will attatch to your lathe?

Greetings,

Generally you can tell by checking the manual or spec sheet that comes with your lathe, or finding one online.

What kind of lathe do you have? If it's a modern one odds are that it will be a #2MT (Morris Taper). That is the larger one.

[AlanZ]

There are several sizes of MT (Morse Taper) ranging from #0 (smallest) to #7 (largest)

For a home shop, these are the most used

MT1 is the smallest, used on some mini lathes

MT2 is used by most midi and full size lathes

MT3 is typically used by small metal working lathes and milling machines

Some lathes might have a #3 in the headstock and a #2 in the tailstock.

By the way, some folk seem to pronounce it as "Morris" taper, but it's "Morse" named after Stephen A. Morse (who also evidently invented the twist drill). Take a peek at Wikipedia... click here, there are dimensions and some other notes near the middle of the page.

[woodtinkerer]

Greetings,

Generally you can tell by checking the manual or spec sheet that comes with your lathe, or finding one online.

What kind of lathe do you have? If it's a modern one odds are that it will be a #2MT (Morris Taper). That is the larger one.

My lathe is a cheapy, i think the brand is Tool Shop, its a menards specail

I didnt want to put a lot of money into my first lathe because i wasn't sure how well i was going to do at it. I didnt want to sink hundreds of dollars into it if all i was good at making was tooth picks.

I havent been able to use it much since getting it so i will have to dig the manual out as see if it say. After reading Alan Z's link below i am a little worried.

There are several sizes of MT (Morse Taper) ranging from #0 (smallest) to #7 (largest)

For a home shop, these are the most used

MT1 is the smallest, used on some mini lathes

MT2 is used by most midi and full size lathes

MT3 is typically used by small metal working lathes and milling machines

Some lathes might have a #3 in the headstock and a #2 in the tailstock.

By the way, some folk seem to pronounce it as "Morris" taper, but it's "Morse" named after Stephen A. Morse (who also evidently invented the twist drill). Take a peek at Wikipedia... click here, there are dimensions and some other notes near the middle of the page.

Thank you for the link, After reading through it i am a little worried now. My lathe is on the cheaper side of prices(not sure if it has anything to do with it) but my "head stock" i think its called doesnt look like the pictures in that wiki post. Mine has a small point in the center with 4 even smaller evenly spaced points around it. I believe that piece is threaded onto a shaft but all that comes out of the box where the motor and pullys are at is a threaded shaft maybe inch or inch and half long, is that bad for me?

[Chili]

I'm not sure how much you're wanting to invest in each pen, but PSI has some good deals going on right now. For starters they have some nice exotic blanks for $1 a stick, that solves two of your problems (risk of oak splitting out, and adding variety to your wares).

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK99499.html

There's also quite a few good sales going on right now on kits which might help you give some higher quality pens without spending your whole christmas bonus.

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/specials.html

As for finish, imho this depends on the quality of pen you're giving. For my slimline pens, I sand up to 1000, burnish, throw on a coat of tung oil, and seal it with one quick coat of CA, buff, and I'm done. I don't see the point in spending more than a few minutes on a pen that's only worth a few dollars.

Now for my higher end pens, Majestic, Majestic Jr, etc, after the same sand/burnish/oil, i put on about 15-20 coats of CA, and then run through the micromesh system, and you're left with a finish that looks like glass. Again, the quality of pen dictates the quality of finish.

I'm not trying to push PSI over any of the other stellar online vendors out there, I just recently came across these good deals and wanted to share the wealth. And I'm def not an authority on the subject, but I dabble. I have some recent pens posted in my gallery if you want to take a look to see what I'm talking about.

[Lawrence Brown]

My lathe is a cheapy, i think the brand is Tool Shop, its a menards specail

I didnt want to put a lot of money into my first lathe because i wasn't sure how well i was going to do at it. I didnt want to sink hundreds of dollars into it if all i was good at making was tooth picks.

I havent been able to use it much since getting it so i will have to dig the manual out as see if it say. After reading Alan Z's link below i am a little worried.

Thank you for the link, After reading through it i am a little worried now. My lathe is on the cheaper side of prices(not sure if it has anything to do with it) but my "head stock" i think its called doesnt look like the pictures in that wiki post. Mine has a small point in the center with 4 even smaller evenly spaced points around it. I believe that piece is threaded onto a shaft but all that comes out of the box where the motor and pullys are at is a threaded shaft maybe inch or inch and half long, is that bad for me?

Any chance you can post a photo? Hopefully what you describe as a center point with 4 other points is actually a drive center that's been inserted in the headstock. On the opposite end of that shaft where it sticks out the left end of the lathe, is there a hole in the middle? If there is, then normally you would get the center out by inserting a rod in the hole and tapping on it. If it's one solid piece though, that isn't going to do any good and I would guess there's some sort of adapter that goes on those threads so that you can attach things to it.

It's possible that the unit is so basic that it isn't meant to have other centers put in it, but I'd have to see it to know more. Is there any kind of model number or other info so that we could look it up online?

[AlanZ]

Mine has a small point in the center with 4 even smaller evenly spaced points around it. I believe that piece is threaded onto a shaft but all that comes out of the box where the motor and pullys are at is a threaded shaft maybe inch or inch and half long, is that bad for me?

This sounds like a simple drive spur. Can you post a photo?

It's possible/likely that the spur can be removed (if it's on an MT taper)

[woodtinkerer]

Any chance you can post a photo? Hopefully what you describe as a center point with 4 other points is actually a drive center that's been inserted in the headstock. On the opposite end of that shaft where it sticks out the left end of the lathe, is there a hole in the middle? If there is, then normally you would get the center out by inserting a rod in the hole and tapping on it. If it's one solid piece though, that isn't going to do any good and I would guess there's some sort of adapter that goes on those threads so that you can attach things to it.

It's possible that the unit is so basic that it isn't meant to have other centers put in it, but I'd have to see it to know more. Is there any kind of model number or other info so that we could look it up online?

This sounds like a simple drive spur. Can you post a photo?

It's possible/likely that the spur can be removed (if it's on an MT taper)

I am not sure how to post a photo, the model is Tool Shop model #240-2949.

I found a picture online that is similar here is the link

My link

if you follow the link and click on the picture it will enlarge it, mine looks almost exactly like this, it doesnt have the huge red/yellow button, but the part i am asking about looks exactly the same. The part can be taken off and it came with a plate mount that i assume would be for turning bowls but it threads on too. The MT taper doesnt not have threads right?

[woodtinkerer]

This sounds like a simple drive spur. Can you post a photo?

It's possible/likely that the spur can be removed (if it's on an MT taper)

I was able to unthread the drive spur and take it off but what it was on is just a solid shaft that is threaded as far as i can tell. Does anyone know if there is some sort of adapter to go from a male thread to a MT?

I was looking at this mandrel from Penn State and it looks like it has a threaded portion on it but i cant tell if it is the same type of thread. The thread on the lathe is pretty course. Anyone have this mandrel or know what its threads are? penn state mandrel