What do I need to make pens?

[Lawrence Brown]

Hmm, sorry to say I think you're out of luck with that one. On that mandrel, the shiny, tapered part at the low end in the picture is what we are referring to as the morris taper. that cone fits into the inside of the hollow shaft on most lathes. The trick is to match the angle (the "taper") on the mandrel to the angle on the inside of the shaft.

Unfortunately, the lathe you have doesn't seem to allow that. It's just a threaded shaft that things can be screwed on to. The threads you are seeing on the madrel are for tightening up the smaller rod that all the other bits are attached to. That rod actually goes all the way through that mandrel: You loosen those two big nuts, slide the rod to the length you need, then tighten them up again. Once it's all set you slide it into the taper in the lathe shaft.

I've never seen an adapter to add a morris taper end to a threaded shaft. The problem is that even if you found one, that mandrel still wouldn't work very well because that small rod actually ends up sticking through the back, so it would still end up hitting the solid shaft on the lathe.

Sorry for the bad news. I don't think you'll be able to use it for pens, but it would still be good for other things that are larger, like the bowls you mentioned. There are a lot of chucks that you can get that have various thread adaptors, so if you can figure out what the exact thread is, you can probably eventually get one of those for turning those larger objects.

If it's really pens you want to get started with and want to spend a bare minimum, one route would be to get one of these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-bench-top-wood-lathe-95607.html

It says it's currently on sale for $135. I started with this same one when it was on sale a long time ago for $99. Before you get too excited, be aware that you are getting what you pay for. You will probably wear the bearings out after a few months if you are constantly using it, and it's not heavy-duty by any means. One way to offset those disadvantages is to buy the 2-year extended warantee. I don't normally go for those, but I did with this one since you can take it back for any reason. (Just tell them the bearings are bad, which is probably what will happen anyway)

I knew I would wear it out, so I just looked at the total cost with the warantee and made a personal decision that the price spread out over 2 years was worth the learning experience. After that I went out and bought a "real" lathe from Woodcraft that was a used demo unit. You're decision may be different. If you know you are going to get serious and long-term about it, get something better up-front. If you just want to play around for awhile and get some experience, I personally don't have a problem putting down $100 or so for a toy (Got an Xbox or a Wii? How much did that cost and how much do you use it?).

Anyway, one last consideration: that particular lathe has a #1 morris taper (that's what the mt#1 in the description means). It's not hard getting a mandrel to fit that, but most better lathes are are an mt#2, so don't expect to use that same mandrel when you upgrade, but you will, of course, be able to use the same tools and most other things.

Have I confused you even more?

Take your time and think about things. I forget if someone else mentioned this in an earlier response, but is there a local turning club you can go to? They are usually a very helpful bunch of people, and someone may even have something they can make you a deal on. A good place to start is AAW. They have a listing somewhere in there of all the local chapters.

Good luck, and let us know what you end up doing.

[AlanZ]

Just to be clear, in case you are trying to search for more information... it's Morse, not Morris taper.

[samhell]

If it's really pens you want to get started with and want to spend a bare minimum, one route would be to get one of these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-bench-top-wood-lathe-95607.html

It says it's currently on sale for $135. I started with this same one when it was on sale a long time ago for $99. Before you get too excited, be aware that you are getting what you pay for. You will probably wear the bearings out after a few months if you are constantly using it, and it's not heavy-duty by any means. One way to offset those disadvantages is to buy the 2-year extended warantee. I don't normally go for those, but I did with this one since you can take it back for any reason. (Just tell them the bearings are bad, which is probably what will happen anyway

I started with that lathe too and still have it. I have the older black/gray one. That little thing is pretty nice for 100 bucks. I used mine a ton and never wore it out. In fact, I bought a bigger lathe that did fry the VS circuit board that I replaced with the guts from that small Harbor Freight lathe. Works great. I don't know if the green version of that small lathe is junk now but the older ones were pretty good, especially for 100 bucks. You are right though, the Morse 1 taper is slightly odd.

To the original poster, does that drive center come off from the powered (left) side of the lathe? It might just be threaded on like most lathes with the Morse adapter in there.

[woodtinkerer]

Hmm, sorry to say I think you're out of luck with that one. On that mandrel, the shiny, tapered part at the low end in the picture is what we are referring to as the morris taper. that cone fits into the inside of the hollow shaft on most lathes. The trick is to match the angle (the "taper") on the mandrel to the angle on the inside of the shaft.

Unfortunately, the lathe you have doesn't seem to allow that. It's just a threaded shaft that things can be screwed on to. The threads you are seeing on the madrel are for tightening up the smaller rod that all the other bits are attached to. That rod actually goes all the way through that mandrel: You loosen those two big nuts, slide the rod to the length you need, then tighten them up again. Once it's all set you slide it into the taper in the lathe shaft.

I've never seen an adapter to add a morris taper end to a threaded shaft. The problem is that even if you found one, that mandrel still wouldn't work very well because that small rod actually ends up sticking through the back, so it would still end up hitting the solid shaft on the lathe.

Sorry for the bad news. I don't think you'll be able to use it for pens, but it would still be good for other things that are larger, like the bowls you mentioned. There are a lot of chucks that you can get that have various thread adaptors, so if you can figure out what the exact thread is, you can probably eventually get one of those for turning those larger objects.

If it's really pens you want to get started with and want to spend a bare minimum, one route would be to get one of these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-bench-top-wood-lathe-95607.html

It says it's currently on sale for $135. I started with this same one when it was on sale a long time ago for $99. Before you get too excited, be aware that you are getting what you pay for. You will probably wear the bearings out after a few months if you are constantly using it, and it's not heavy-duty by any means. One way to offset those disadvantages is to buy the 2-year extended warantee. I don't normally go for those, but I did with this one since you can take it back for any reason. (Just tell them the bearings are bad, which is probably what will happen anyway)

I knew I would wear it out, so I just looked at the total cost with the warantee and made a personal decision that the price spread out over 2 years was worth the learning experience. After that I went out and bought a "real" lathe from Woodcraft that was a used demo unit. You're decision may be different. If you know you are going to get serious and long-term about it, get something better up-front. If you just want to play around for awhile and get some experience, I personally don't have a problem putting down $100 or so for a toy (Got an Xbox or a Wii? How much did that cost and how much do you use it?).

Anyway, one last consideration: that particular lathe has a #1 morris taper (that's what the mt#1 in the description means). It's not hard getting a mandrel to fit that, but most better lathes are are an mt#2, so don't expect to use that same mandrel when you upgrade, but you will, of course, be able to use the same tools and most other things.

Have I confused you even more?

Take your time and think about things. I forget if someone else mentioned this in an earlier response, but is there a local turning club you can go to? They are usually a very helpful bunch of people, and someone may even have something they can make you a deal on. A good place to start is AAW. They have a listing somewhere in there of all the local chapters.

Good luck, and let us know what you end up doing.

I dont really have the money right now for a new lathe.

I was figuring i was out of luck. I did just recieve a catalog from Penn State Industries and was looking though it and found

threaded shaft 3/4"

and

threaded 1"

I found out today that the threads on the shaft once i take the spur drive off is M18 x 2.5.

I cant find an adapter to go between the M18 and the 3/4" or the 1" but i was told i could have one made for around $25. That is more than what i was hopeing to find an adapter for but it is still cheaper than another lathe. The problem would be is it is probably just going to be a generic "hex nut" with the metric on one side and the inch on the other, so then i would also need to get a small threaded shaft of the inch size.

I wouldnt think it would have to be made out of hardened steel, would you think?

My only other concern would be when they tap both sides that both holes would be exactly inline with each other.

What do you guys think of getting it to work this way?

[Lawrence Brown]

Just to be clear, in case you are trying to search for more information... it's Morse, not Morris taper.

Ah, yes. Caught me on that one

So many sources get it wrong that I keep getting it confused. Thanks.

[Lawrence Brown]

I dont really have the money right now for a new lathe.

I was figuring i was out of luck. I did just recieve a catalog from Penn State Industries and was looking though it and found

threaded shaft 3/4"

and

threaded 1"

I found out today that the threads on the shaft once i take the spur drive off is M18 x 2.5.

I cant find an adapter to go between the M18 and the 3/4" or the 1" but i was told i could have one made for around $25. That is more than what i was hopeing to find an adapter for but it is still cheaper than another lathe. The problem would be is it is probably just going to be a generic "hex nut" with the metric on one side and the inch on the other, so then i would also need to get a small threaded shaft of the inch size.

I wouldnt think it would have to be made out of hardened steel, would you think?

My only other concern would be when they tap both sides that both holes would be exactly inline with each other.

What do you guys think of getting it to work this way?

Ahh... Welcome to the wonderful world of thread adaptors!

The easy question:

No, the adaptor wouldn't have to be hardened. You're not dealing with anything heavy-duty enough where it would really make a difference. In fact, hardening might actually cause problems.

Now for the not-so-easy question:

Looks like you found the mandrel you need. I didn't know they made threaded versions. The way these work is that instead of sliding the shaft into the head, you add more bushings to take up the empty space and then tighten the thumb nut on the right end to tighten it.

So the problem now is that the threads are wrong. What you need now is one of these. Note that I'm only using this link to illustrate the part. Of course they don't have one in the particular size you need. That would be too easy

Using the photos on that link as a reference, you would screw the mandrel onto the right side of the adaptor, then screw the adaptor onto your lathe.

Now we get to the fun part. I did a search for M18x2.5 adaptors, but the only thing I found was here. You would want "Insert K" from the table at the bottom. The problem is, they don't say anywhere what the size of the threads on the outside are. They couldn't be 3/4" because that's pretty much the same size as an M18, and from the picture, I'm guessing it's also larger than 1". Unfortunately, those seem to be the only two sizes the mandrel is offered in. You could call up nova and find out what the larger thread size is on their adaptors. If you are lucky, then it'll be 1"x8tpi. You're absolutely sure your lathe is M18x2.5?

Okay, so if finding an off-the-shelf adaptor isn't going to work, then we need to look at the problem another way. If you take another look at the mandrel that you want on the Penn State site, take a closer look at the headstock end. This is itself just an adaptor. The rod the bushings go on is just a standard 7mm shaft with threads on the ends. You can see it shown seperately under "accessories and related products".

To make the correct adaptor for your lathe, there are two ways: 1> Turn it from a solid rod of steel with the correct threads, or 2> Find something like a pipe coupler or something that has M18x2.5 threads in it, cut it to the length you want, find a bold that is also M18x2.5, screw the bolt into the fitting and cut off the extra, and then drill a hole into the middle of the bolt and thread it to fit the 7mm shaft. Unfortunately, you would still need to find a machinist because the only way to get that hole centered would be with a machine lathe.

I myself could make you one, but it would still ened up costing between $20 and $40 because I would have to get the right sized taps and drill bits to cut the metric threads, and then you would still need to buy the mandrel kit, so that doesn't really help you much either.

I'm afraid that you are probably out of luck with keeping the price down on this, and even if you did go with one of these solutions, you would still have to start all over again when you wanted to do something else. Unfortunately you just seem to have a lathe that's non-standard and only set up to do pretty much one thing, which is spindle turning.

If you were in the area, I could make you a deal on my old start lathe. Other than that, I would recommend that you just keep watching Craigslist and so on and wait for something better to come along. Along those lines, perhaps you could sell the one you have to someone that can use it as-is. ie: someone that wants to do some basic spindle turning using the head that's already on it instead of pens. I doubt you'd get much for it for all the above reasons, but you never know.

Sorry I don't have better news, but that's just sometimes the nature of bargain tools.

[woodtinkerer]

Ahh... Welcome to the wonderful world of thread adaptors!

The easy question:

No, the adaptor wouldn't have to be hardened. You're not dealing with anything heavy-duty enough where it would really make a difference. In fact, hardening might actually cause problems.

Now for the not-so-easy question:

Looks like you found the mandrel you need. I didn't know they made threaded versions. The way these work is that instead of sliding the shaft into the head, you add more bushings to take up the empty space and then tighten the thumb nut on the right end to tighten it.

So the problem now is that the threads are wrong. What you need now is one of these. Note that I'm only using this link to illustrate the part. Of course they don't have one in the particular size you need. That would be too easy

Using the photos on that link as a reference, you would screw the mandrel onto the right side of the adaptor, then screw the adaptor onto your lathe.

Now we get to the fun part. I did a search for M18x2.5 adaptors, but the only thing I found was here. You would want "Insert K" from the table at the bottom. The problem is, they don't say anywhere what the size of the threads on the outside are. They couldn't be 3/4" because that's pretty much the same size as an M18, and from the picture, I'm guessing it's also larger than 1". Unfortunately, those seem to be the only two sizes the mandrel is offered in. You could call up nova and find out what the larger thread size is on their adaptors. If you are lucky, then it'll be 1"x8tpi. You're absolutely sure your lathe is M18x2.5?

Okay, so if finding an off-the-shelf adaptor isn't going to work, then we need to look at the problem another way. If you take another look at the mandrel that you want on the Penn State site, take a closer look at the headstock end. This is itself just an adaptor. The rod the bushings go on is just a standard 7mm shaft with threads on the ends. You can see it shown seperately under "accessories and related products".

To make the correct adaptor for your lathe, there are two ways: 1> Turn it from a solid rod of steel with the correct threads, or 2> Find something like a pipe coupler or something that has M18x2.5 threads in it, cut it to the length you want, find a bold that is also M18x2.5, screw the bolt into the fitting and cut off the extra, and then drill a hole into the middle of the bolt and thread it to fit the 7mm shaft. Unfortunately, you would still need to find a machinist because the only way to get that hole centered would be with a machine lathe.

I myself could make you one, but it would still ened up costing between $20 and $40 because I would have to get the right sized taps and drill bits to cut the metric threads, and then you would still need to buy the mandrel kit, so that doesn't really help you much either.

I'm afraid that you are probably out of luck with keeping the price down on this, and even if you did go with one of these solutions, you would still have to start all over again when you wanted to do something else. Unfortunately you just seem to have a lathe that's non-standard and only set up to do pretty much one thing, which is spindle turning.

If you were in the area, I could make you a deal on my old start lathe. Other than that, I would recommend that you just keep watching Craigslist and so on and wait for something better to come along. Along those lines, perhaps you could sell the one you have to someone that can use it as-is. ie: someone that wants to do some basic spindle turning using the head that's already on it instead of pens. I doubt you'd get much for it for all the above reasons, but you never know.

Sorry I don't have better news, but that's just sometimes the nature of bargain tools.

Well thanks for all the help.

I actually think i could get it to work with the adaptors you linked.

It looks like the adaptors from nova go to a M33 thread. So i could get the adaptor from nova that would go from my M18 to thier M33, then get this adaptor to go from the now M33 to the 1" required by this Mandrel. Which all seems alittle hokey however seems like it would work. But the problem is now the only place i could find a price on the nova adaptor was from a reseller on their website which was $56. Wow $56 plus the $20 for the other adaptor, by the time shipping is added i am getting close to $90 and that isnt helping. I have about $100 to spend and if i spend it on a new lathe then i dont have anything to buy the actual parts and supplies for the actual pens. ugh.

I might have to see if i can get one adaptor made from the M18 to the 1" or 3/4". I am 100% sure the thread on the lathe is M18 x 2.5 because i took off the "spur drive" or whatever its called and took it into the local menards store and found a M18 bolt that threaded into it. If I can get an adaptor make for $25 to $30 i might have to go that route.

[Onboard]

Hello,

With the holidays coming up I am starting to think about gifts for the office. This year is the first year of a new job for me. I have never before been in an office that had actual "staff." As such there are 22 people that I would like to give gifts to if I can. Gosh even just saying it I realize that is a lot.

Apple Wood, I hope I’m not putting you on the spot here. I was wondering though how things are going with your pen turning endeavors? I know time flies, and things don’t always work out as planned and people’s posts do get hijacked. Not yours of course.

[blobue]

Hi All,

Another option to the brass tube, mandrel, bushing thing described here is to make stick pens. A stick pen is just a bic round stick pen ink cartridge stuck into a piece of wood with a 5/32" hole. In it's simplest form it could just be a six inch piece of wood with a 5 inch by 5/32" hole drilled in it, put the cartridge from the bic stick pen into it and you have a wooden pen. Although a really lame one. The process we use in my shop is to use a morse taper mounted drill chuck to drill a 5 inch by 5/32" hole into a pen blank. The blanks are 6-8" piece of 3/4 x 3/4 hardwood. I bought $20 worth of hardwood from the clearance bin at a local lumber yard and had 200 blanks. I just ripped the boards to 3/4 on the band saw and then cut to size. Drilling the 5" hole is the hardest part of the whole affair. You can get a 5/32" aircraft bit that is 6" long that will drill the necessary hole. Just back the bit out often to clear the chips. After drilling the hole we turn the body of the pen on a drive mandrel made from 5/32" drill rod. I got the drill rod from a machine shop supplier like Enco. I cut the rod to 7" and filed a v-shaped notch in the end to provide some drive. Bring up the tailstock and start making chips. Cut, shape, sand, and finish. Add the pen insert and you are done. I will try and take some pictures of the process and attach them. Total tooling cost would be the price of a taper mounted drill chuck and some 5/32 drill rod. Hope that helps.

Brian LoBue

Industrial Arts Teacher

Christopher High School

Gilroy CA