uneven stain on hardwood floor

[john eckstein]

Hello folks,

 

My wife and I stained our oak floors with a dark stain (minwax 'provincial'). When it dried it revealed many variations, random light spots and some marks we hadn't seen when the floor was bare.

 

Would anyone have any advice for us on how to correct this and make it look more uniform?

 

any opinions and ideas would be appreciated as we are new DIY folks. This is our first floor and Deb is very worried.

 

Thanks much,

 

John & Debbie (pic attached)

[wtnhighlander]

Is this a new floor, or a refinish? To me, the pictures look like the surface has not been sanded as evenly as it could be. I can't offer an easy fix, but perhaps with more detail about the process you used, one of the other forum members will.

Good luck!

[PeteJr]

Did you leave stain on the sufrace wet to air-dry or did you wipe it thoroughly after application and soak time?

[Tkf530]

Is that water damage?

[Tom King]

If you are going to stain an oak floor, the prep has to be impeccable.  After the sanding, screen through all the grades up through 180.  Especially with Minwax, you have to not let it get ahead of you.  Even if it sets on one part longer than another for a few minutes, it will soak in more.  Sanding through the finest grade helps this some, but you still have to GO when applying it. 

 

I use a buffer with a piece of carpet under it for staining.  A helper with a plastic watering jug, with a small spout, pours some ahead of the buffer while I'm running it without stopping.  You never want to get so much on the floor that the buffer pushes it ahead.  The buffer just needs to spread it around.

 

We've stained one room by hand, and it's many times harder on you that using a buffer.  It's not a job that I would do again by hand.

 

If you search Youtube, you can find videos of people applying floor stain with a buffer.

[john eckstein]

To highlander; yes it is a refinish. We stripped it with 50 grit. We went over stubborn spots a few times with belt sander and a friend did the edges and a few spots with grinder.

To Pete; yes we left it to air dry . We used brushes to apply it at the advice of a painter friend. Not such good advice :-(

It is in a dining room that joins a kitchen and back yard. So it may have water issues?

Any ideas on how to reverse it? even if not an easy fix?

Thanks guys

[john eckstein]

Oh, we also went over it with a 60 grit then a 120 grit.

[Tkf530]

You're jumping grits too quick with the sandpaper. You're going to need to re-sand the whole floor to fix this now. Sand with 80 now and move up to 100, 120 and then 150 or 180. Stain with a pad maybe?

[dwacker]

I would not sand a floor to 180. 80-100 on red oak is fine. 80 is also to fine of a starting grit even for new freshly laid floors, 30 is a good starting point for bare floors 12-16 for removing old finish.

 

I'll add. Estimate how much stain you will need. If its two gallons dump both in a 5 gallon bucket and stir together. Apply with a stain mop. If you sanded properly Minwax will go down evenly.

[john eckstein]

I'm studying all the opinions you guys have posted thank you so much. If any other thoughts please add them. We are going over it to get it right.

John & Deb

[Freddie]

For the stain to take once like the color on the can, sand to 100. Use orbit sander with 100 to get against walls to remove the big swirls from the edger. Buff the floor with 100 grit screen. Vacuum. Water pop the floor either by hand with damp rag or lambs wool on a stick. Once completely dry, apply stain. Wipe off all excess. You will then have the right color and the satin will be even.

[Mike Frank]

I would not sand a floor to 180. 80-100 on red oak is fine. 80 is also to fine of a starting grit even for new freshly laid floors, 30 is a good starting point for bare floors 12-16 for removing old finish.

 

I'll add. Estimate how much stain you will need. If its two gallons dump both in a 5 gallon bucket and stir together. Apply with a stain mop. If you sanded properly Minwax will go down evenly.

 

goodness 12-16 grit for old finish as in clear finish

[dwacker]

goodness 12-16 grit for old finish as in clear finish

 

Yes run through with 12 on your edger and 16 on your drum. Knocks off the old finish without plugging up expensive sanding supplies. Go up from there and move to vibratory sander up to 100 screen. No need to go further, you really dont want to go further when staining.

[Tom King]

Final grit of sandpaper really depends on the machine you are using.  For old school, like I do simply because that's the equipment I've owned since the mid 70s, you generally go as fine as you can with a sanding screen on a buffer.  For natural finish, 120 or 150 is fine.  If it's going to be stained, I go as fine as I can buy a 16" sanding screen-used to be 150, now 180 where I buy flooring supplies.  As seen at about 3:23 in this video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_4WuxDo4Is

 

Corners and edges you can't get to with a handheld random orbit sander have to be scraped.  You may be able to find a video on it, but if you can't, get someone to show you how that knows how to do it.  It goes fairly quickly, and makes the difference between an ordinary job, and one of perfection.

 

If you are using a big random orbit sander, like Lowes rents-which works very well, the Velcro disks don't need to go so fine, just because of the random orbit.  I've used these machines, and like them fine.  If the floor is going to be stained, stay on it longer with each grit that it seems like you need to.  Stain will show every scratch left from the last grit.  I sold my drum sander years ago, and if we have just a room or two to do, I'll rent one of these machines.  I still screen final though.

 

Pros these days use a big belt sander that costs about 12,000.   http://www.laegler.com/eng/superhummel.php ( you can't rent these anywhere that I know of)  The best floor pros I know who use these machines, still screen it with a buffer to 180 if the floor is going to be stained.  Those big belt sanders do a much better job than can be done with a drum sander.  It comes out perfect.  Those were the guys who showed me how to put stain on with a buffer. This is one of the few things I contract out if I have a big floor job-anything over a couple of thousand feet.

 

If you are going to put stain on with a buffer, most people use a piece of carpet because you're going to throw it away, and it's cheap.  You don't have to stay on the floor long at all with the fine grits-much less than in the video-but it needs to be really slick so it doesn't grab any carpet fibers.

 

Everyone has a little bit of a different technique with applying stain with a buffer.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YKBdYVwQs4  The stain you see most people in the videos using is a Bona stain.  Minwax stain is a lot thinner, and you can't dilly-dally at all with it on the floor.  I only used it one time because the homeowners had already mixed up a sample that they liked.  I won't use it again unless it's some sort of unusual circumstance.

 

You could never use Minwax stain at the rate the guy in this video is doing it.  You can't let it sit on the floor at all.   It has to be nothing but GO all the time.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhFIh4K_udg   

 

When I'm building a new house, I always finish the floors before I start installing any trim, so I can go right to the wall with the buffer, and only have to hand stain the very corners.  No one else will work in the house until it's finished though, so this is not the normal way.  I also paint the walls before I start installing trim, and paint the edges of the trim before it goes up, so the final finish is perfect.

[john eckstein]

I'm thankful to you guys. I have 4 rooms to do and I only screwed up one so far.

now I learned alot about prepping the next rooms and how best to approach them.

I don't have a drum sander. I was reluctant to rent one because they say I might damage the floor if I'm not experienced with it. I've been using a belt sander mostly.

As for my unevenly stained dining room, I will start with WOODSAP's first step of trying mineral spirits to see off it evens out a bit and take it from there. That would be great. However I have a feeling i have to start over . I will re-read all the information you guys have offered and doing my best to get a beautiful floor .

One more question, is it ok to sand a stained floor or did the stain go so deep I'll risk sanding through the wood?

[Tom King]

The stain doesn't go as deep as you might think.  I'd recommend renting the machine from Lowes that has three random orbit heads on it.  It goes fairly fast.  Buy more of the sanding disks than their scale says you need, don't open the packages you don't use, and carry any leftovers back for a refund.  Have help, or a good plan to unload it.  It's heavy enough that you don't want to unload it by yourself unless you lift weights several times a week anyway.  It goes up right against a wall, so you don't need an edger.

 

Do not use a drum sander, even if you can get one for nothing.  It takes a skilled hand.

 

 Buy some Bona stain even if you have to buy it online.

 

Get an 1-1/2" or 2" regular paint scraper, and a 6" mill file with handle, for sharpening it-you need to frequently, to scrape the corners.  If you need help about how to use it, I might be able to talk you though it.

[john eckstein]

This is such great advice, I am putting it to action. Our lowes in California doesn't rent tools so I'm looking for a place today. I tried the mineral spirits last night. It got a little lighter , but the floor still looks like a pizza.

So we are starting over and we really appreciate your sharing the knowledge.

[dwacker]

Doing floors is a drag. Ive done mine twice. Just an old style super 8 and a vibratory is about as easy as it gets for a happy homeowner. The wife and I are living in a hotel right now. We had our entire down stairs gutted down to the dirt this past week. They are installing new floor joist today and all the plaster walls were stripped to the studs. We are doing fumed oak with swedish finish this time around but this time we are paying the contractor.

 

 

 

Good Luck

[jHop]

My mother in law's new husband strips and refinishes his wood floors every few years, but his approach is far different from this.  He uses chemical strippers, and one large buffing pad (he borrows it from work), and they take about a week to go through the whole process.

 

His approach is more the "good 'nuff" approach.  There's a reason he does this every five or so years... the process he uses, including sanding the floors between stripper and stain, does not cover the details mentioned here.  So while it's not absolutely essential to follow the instructions offered, following them will certainly make the results into a higher quality, and you will have many years to enjoy the floor, not just four-ish.

 

(Tom, his patience level would not let him do your approach.  No matter how hard I might suggest it, he won't change his approach.  So I can only offer a comparison.  And having visited their house when it's airing out from the chemical they use, I certainly recommend *against* the chemical process.) 

[john eckstein]

So gentlemen,

I found this orbital sander with 4 disks at Home Depot . What grits would you recommend starting with stain removal. There is no finish coat.

The rest of the house is mostly sanded with many pockets of missed finish from last sanding. But no stain.

[Tpt life]

80 is agressive on unfinished wood. It is a preferred starting point for material removal for me. Knowing that you are only looking to get below stain I might be tempted to start with 100 in a small spot just to see what happens.

[dwacker]

If you have little dips, you need to flatten the floor. Id skip the fancy sander and just rent a super 8 and start with 36. Run across the grain at a 45 the with 36 then work your way up.

 

 

 

[Tom King]

The random orbit won't take it off too fast anyway.   Start with the second most aggressive to see how it goes.   Buy some of all of it though. I've never used one of these and not started with the coarsest grit.   I expect you will need to also.  I expect it will go faster to go ahead and cut it down.  The rest of the grits go pretty quickly once it's all leveled down to good wood.

 

HD is good about taking things back, so get more than you think you need to start with.  I'm not familiar with a four disk machine.  The ones I've rented at Lowes have 3 6" disks. 

 

If they don't have plenty of every grit for your job, wait until they do.  You don't want to skip grits with this machine, and no need to rent it if you aren't using it.  After you get it leveled down like you want it with whatever grit you start with, stay on it longer with each of the other grits than you think you need to since you are staining it.  Stain will highlight every scratch.  It's pretty hard to screw up with these machines other than getting too fast with each grit.

 

My bet is that you will end up going with the most aggressive.

 

My advice is to make complete passes with the grain over how many boards the machine covers, and back and forth the full length. Good light shined across the floor down low helps a lot.  One pass with each grit will be a plenty, but don't hurray.  It took me about an hour to do our 16x20 TV room with new 5" white oak, going through all the grits, and finishing with the buffer and sanding screens.  I'd get it done with the sander, and then come back to scrape where you need to. 

 

I've used all the machines listed in this thread.  That's the machine I would recommend for a homeowner, and the machine I would rent myself If I only had a few hundred square feet to do of bare wood.

 

It does great on bare floor, and regular old finishes.  The one thing it won't do is cut off the newer, high tech finishes-even old moisture cure urethane, but it sounds like it will be fine for what you have.  I have moisture cure urethane in our dog room, and I had one of these machines for another small job.  I took it in the house, and put it on the dog room floor-linoleum tiles with gloss MCU on it.  80 wouldn't even scratch the floor.

[Tom King]

If that machine has good dust collection, it should be okay.  I found one four disk machine online that said they quit putting a dust bag on it.  The Varathane three disk machine has very good dust collection.  If the four disk machine doesn't, see if you can find someone who rents the Varathane.  You will still need to cover doorways with plastic and blue masking tape.

[atratinus]

As a hardwood flooring contractor, I have to agree with the (much) earlier poster's advice: hire a pro. I don't mean this to be self- or trade-serving; it's simply that refinishing hardwood floors, especially with stain, is an involved process which requires many specialized tools and techniques.

Much of the advice in this thread is good, but really isn't aimed at a beginner or DIYer. (Some strikes me as misapplied; I can't imagine ever using 12 or 16 grit at 45 degrees to the grain unless you'd really just rather take your floor down to the joists.)

As one example, if the floors in your other rooms have been sanded, but retain finish in spots, your floor isn't flat. They need a proper belt sander (the 250-pound kind), or at least a good drum sander.

A flooring edger should be used around the perimeter and in any space (e.g., a small closet) where the belt sander can't be used. An angle grinder will never suffice.

Most importantly, use of a buffer is key. This step evens out the resolution of all previous stages. (Scrapers and hand-sanding will take care of corners and jambs.) This step is vital for an even stain color and absolutely requires experience with this machine. (For example, I know some pros use the buffer with a carpet scrap to apply stain, but I've never gotten the hang

of this technique. I still rag it on, as I feel I have better control.)

Other notes: Minwax is sh*t; use a dedicated flooring stain. And most good-quality flooring finishes are available only to contractors. There's a reason for this; they can be dangerous to the user and difficult to apply properly.

All of that said, please remember that I don't intend this post as a slight to any other poster's advice or to your desire to do this project yourself. I only mean to alert you to the difficulties inherent in such a project, the missteps it seems you've already made, and the rather special knowledge and effort needed to achieve a good result. Best wishes for a successful project,

Ryan