Tom Cancelleri Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I'm staring at 2 shopping carts. 1 for Lee Valley, 1 for Lie Neilsen. The both consist of the same tools (for the most part) I'm looking to add for more finesse work, versatility, etc. Am I doubling up anywhere or are there jobs that could be done with others and would make a certain tool in my cart kind of pointless or unnecessary? What would you go with, and why? My thoughts are: Rabbeting block for tenon cheeks. Jointer for jointing edges that need to be cleaned up a bit after machine work (sometimes there are little light gaps), flattening large tops Shoulder Plane for the occasional shoulder or narrow rabbet edge I may need to clean up (though I think I could do the narrow rabbeted edge with the router plane) Smoother because a second and higher end smoother that is less finicky to adjust would be nice. Current tools I have Dunlap Smoother (from the early 1900s, works well) Stanley Bailey #5 jack plane Veritas DX60 Veritas Router Plane Veritas #80 Cabinet Scraper LN 1/4,1/2,3/4,1" bench chisels Narex 1/4, 3/8, 1/2" mortise chisels Currently in my carts are the following LN LN Rabbeting Block Plane LN Low Angle Jointer LN Medium Shoulder Plane LN Low Angle Smoother Lee Valley Veritas Low Angle Smoother Veritas Large Shoulder Plane Veritas Low Angle Jointer Additional Jointer blade with 38 degree grind Veritas Skew Rabbet Block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barron Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Since you already have a nifty block plane, I would go with the shoulder and drop the rabbet/skew planes. The shoulder plane would work well on tenons as well as rabbets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Going to have some doubles or make a choice between LN and LV? Not trying to raise that dead horse for another beating, just a simple question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Going to have some doubles or make a choice between LN and LV? Not trying to raise that dead horse for another beating, just a simple question I'm leaning towards LN, I do like their mouth adjustment and fit and finish on the smoother. The LV shoulder plane looks a bit more comfortable and offers more holding options. The LV Jointer has spare blades already ground to give you a high angle cut. 2 different blades at the LN cost. Hence the reason I have both options available. The LN rabbetting block is nicer than the LV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 You really can't go wrong.. Both are really great tools! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nub Thumb Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I don't think you can go wrong with either shoulder plane, but my research (I'm in the market for one soon) has lead me to believe that I'd be happier with the LV. But if I were going LN, I'd get the large. Curious why you are thinking low angle jointer over the traditional. I've only fooled around with a LN low angle jack for a short time and later found out that the angle was less than appropriate for what I was doing, but even with a well tuned blade, I think I'd miss the ease of adjusting on the fly that the traditional jointer has. I've got a LN #7 that I hope never leaves my reach. When I'm jointing a board, I go from deeper cuts to shallower as the plane works the board flat. I understand the appeal of the low angle smoother if you are working difficult wood (although I'm still hooked on traditional), but I think it would be seldom that difficult wood grain would come into play with jointing. But I'm wrong all the time. Just ask my wife. Are you going with a right and left plane LV skew rabbet block? I love the fence option on those. Not sure how much I'd use the fence though. If money were no hurdle, I'd go with the pair of LV. But the LN is the better bargain here I think. Which ever route you take, those are some nice tools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yes I agree whichever of the two brands you go for you will not be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 BU Jointer: As the till fills, BU designs lose their innate advantage. I can see a set of BD planes being augmented by LN’s BU smoother (it has a Bailey-style adjuster) and [maybe] a BU Jack --- but only if you raise panels, work end-grain, etc... I’d take a pass on the BU Jointer -- any make. Rebate block plane: I keep adding this to my eBay list, but then I run into an application where it’s the perfect tool... Only happens about once a year... A large shoulder plane is more useful... BTW: fixing tenon shoulders is presented as ‘the application’ for this tool. However, it’s a red herring... After you’ve made a few pieces, you tend to dial-in the shoulders first-time, so you rarely need to trim them... You don't seem to have a block plane in your 'current list'. I'd get the LN adjustable mouth and the LN apron plane before the rebate... I know lot's like the adjustable-mouth, but in many shops, the apron is the way to go. Non-Large-Shoulder-Planes: If you fit a lot of machine-cut joinery on smaller projects, then it’s worth getting something other than the large Shoulder plane... I build decorative boxes, smaller gifts, etc – the medium and small are both worthwhile... But for full-sized pieces, the Large is all you need. Skew: if you must have a skew, then the LV is the one to get... But I’d spend the extra bucks for a more useful tool – the moving fillister... Once you have the MF, your skew will get eBayed... LN/BU Smoother – got one, love it... But, I raise and smooth bevels by hand... If you don’t do this... General note, if you think a tool is transitional, then get the LN version – they retain around 90% of full MSRP on eBay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 BU Jointer: As the till fills, BU designs lose their innate advantage. I can see a set of BD planes being augmented by LN’s BU smoother (it has a Bailey-style adjuster) and [maybe] a BU Jack --- but only if you raise panels, work end-grain, etc... I’d take a pass on the BU Jointer -- any make. Rebate block plane: I keep adding this to my eBay list, but then I run into an application where it’s the perfect tool... Only happens about once a year... A large shoulder plane is more useful... BTW: fixing tenon shoulders is presented as ‘the application’ for this tool. However, it’s a red herring... After you’ve made a few pieces, you tend to dial-in the shoulders first-time, so you rarely need to trim them... You don't seem to have a block plane in your 'current list'. I'd get the LN adjustable mouth and the LN apron plane before the rebate... I know lot's like the adjustable-mouth, but in many shops, the apron is the way to go. Non-Large-Shoulder-Planes: If you fit a lot of machine-cut joinery on smaller projects, then it’s worth getting something other than the large Shoulder plane... I build decorative boxes, smaller gifts, etc – the medium and small are both worthwhile... But for full-sized pieces, the Large is all you need. Skew: if you must have a skew, then the LV is the one to get... But I’d spend the extra bucks for a more useful tool – the moving fillister... Once you have the MF, your skew will get eBayed... LN/BU Smoother – got one, love it... But, I raise and smooth bevels by hand... If you don’t do this... General note, if you think a tool is transitional, then get the LN version – they retain around 90% of full MSRP on eBay... Good information here. Much appreciated so far. I do have a block plane, 3 to be exact. a Veritas DX60, which is a fantastic plane, and I've given it a fair amount of use since I got it. The other 2 are Stanley block planes that do what I would call beater work, where it's not so much finessing as it is the stuff I don't want my DX60 doing. It would seem Veritas doesn't make a number 7 style jointer Ordered the Veritas shoulder plane. Looks like LV has free shipping until June 8th. I'm guessing a number 7, LA smoother and maybe a LA Jack from LN are gonna be on order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nub Thumb Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 What are you going to be using the low angle jack for? I hate to sound like I'm anti-low angle, but from what I understand, it's a great plane to have if you don't have many planes. You've got a smoother and are getting a low angle smoother. And you've got the (my opinion) best jack plane already in the Stanley #5. I've got a Bailey that I put an 8" radius on the blade and a LN #5. Since I radiused the Bailey, I rarely use the LN. It'll take stock down like a scrub if so desire. I'll do the ruff stuff with the #5, clean it up with the LN#7 and smooth it out with a #2, #3, or #4 depending on the project (and which one is sharpest). So to me, you would be backing up a little with the low angle jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 You’ve got to separate length/width as a Jack (#5, #5 ¼, #5 ½, etc) from BU/BD as a grain-bias... In a hand-tool workshop, having two Jacks is common (three is more common), or at least one Jack with two irons with different cambers – course stock removal and medium stock removal... Some have a second (or third) Jack (maybe a 5 ¼) tuned for light finish work on large panels... Sort of like smoothers -- think I've got five at the moment... So it comes down to cost and space – if you do enough end-grain and bastard-grain work, having a plane tuned for that application is a benefit... If you already have a bevy of BD Jacks, getting a BU comes down to purchasing dedicated-application kit... If you work a lot of end-grain or bevel your own panels, table tops, whatever --- then adding the BU makes some sense – but only some... If you have two BD Jacks (one tuned for course work and one for fine), then the plane tuned for fine work will probably be AOK for raising panels... BTW: the 'course stock removal in crazy grain' application is frequently given for the BU Jack --- but it's very hard to raise enough camber to make that work... Unless you work really crazy stock, the BD Jack is the go-to stock remover... The BU for that application falls into 'one plane can do it all' nonense... Let’s put it this way, I’ve got a LN/LA Jack --- I use it maybe once a year – OK, once every two years. Each and every month I tell myself that it just takes-up valuable wall space and I’m going to eBay it --- I just can’t quite make that happen – I keep telling myself that my very next project will have a large raised panel that will be ‘perfect’ for BU.... Same goes for my rebate block plane – I’ll probably keep it until I die, but I can’t figure why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nub Thumb Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Trip, you've made me feel better about not lusting after the LA jack. But I am curious about using it to bevel panels. Would it need to be a low angle jack rabbet to do this or are you doing it with the standard LA jack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Trip, you've made me feel better about not lusting after the LA jack. But I am curious about using it to bevel panels. Would it need to be a low angle jack rabbet to do this or are you doing it with the standard LA jack? Panels have a lot of end grain to bevel if done by hand. LA handles end grain better than a standard or high angle plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 ==>low angle jack rabbet... standard LA jack? Depends on the stock... Most of the time, BD-Jack... Last year, used a BU-Jack on a set in Birdseye... I'm trying to move away from speciality tools, so don't have a carriage plane - BU or BD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nub Thumb Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 When I read that, raised panels came to mind. Afterthought, I assume you are not making those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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