Step Up and critique the Podcasters

[dinkjs]

So we have WTO who talks about the things in the woodworking world from what they are doing to magazine articles to Woodworking books among other things.

But we have no one critiquing the Podcasters themselves based on whatever factors. So I think I will give my own personal critique to some of the ones I follow on iTunes and Youtube and I will split the two groups up.

Now who am I to judge? I am absolutely no one important to anyone when it comes to anything. I just watch peoples podcasts, and I feel they need to be critiqued.

Could this hurt someones feelings? Maybe I don't know? Maybe they will take it to heart or see it as valuable criticism.

So here we go

This is purely my own opinion and nothing else

Also I know must of these guys only do it for fun and one or two are doing it for the money as a business or have other things going on. I have heard it plenty of times how hard it is to do. But I still I need to critique

In no preticular order. These are updated within the last 3 months or so

iTunes:

1. Woodwhisperer: Always good production, valuable information, has a free and paid plan. I see this podcast similar to regular phones and smart phones. The Free plan is extremely slowly becoming a dinosaur and catering only to the paid customer. Could hurt in the long run.

2. Matt's Basement Workshop: One Big Fat Infomercial....nothing really learning from this podcast anymore...irrelevant unless you want to know about the latest gimmick or um gimmick. To much talking and not enough visual.

3. Hand Tools & Techniques (Bob's): Always wonderful to watch. Production is homemade which I love these days. Only qualm I have? Where the heck are a 2 second video every once in a blue moon Bob? its been 3 Months? I hope this one doesn't go in the discontinued pile.

4. The Internet Woodworker: Again homemade production which is a plus. Kinda sloppy but controlled verbal documentary. Really really growing on me, this one. Very simple and easy.

5. iWoodwork: Can we say way into cue cards? Lose the cue cards and the memorizing and bring it more from your head or off the shoulder. This would work in a pre-made video. I give it a if your bored watch it.

6. Garage Woodworks: Home made production which I like...this could be a better podcast if there was alittle more effort put into presentation

7. The Bois Shop: Great homemade production with attention to good equipment. Very well described in what goes on. Always fun to watch his projects. On this I just would love to see more of the woodworking action. Call me a guy that likes the repetitive stuff like seeing a tablesaw saw stuff.

8. Renaissance Woodworker: This one is slowly falling away to me. Has a free plan and a paid plan . To this podcast there is no regular phone because that went out with the trash and only has Smart Phones now. Cares pretty much only on the Hand Tool School and that is about it. Every once in awhile puts a free video out but pretty much abandoned it.

9. Billy's Little Bench: Great homemade production. Could possibly take the place of Hand Tools & Techniques if Bob goes away. Awesome potential here. Doesn't make me feel like a itty bitty guy. Comes across as just some guy who wants his knowledge known.

Now Youtube

1. Halfinchshy: Great informative about tools especially Festool. Kind of like a small infomercial though. Really needs to sllllooowww down. Would really like to see some projects come out of this guy.

2. Downtoearthwoodworks: Hands down my new favorite guy to watch. Keeps things slow but fast enough to keep your attention. This might be bad but, this guy is like the Grandpa that takes you into his shop to show you how to do things. Only two qualms with this one. Needs to know how to put his info on iTunes and would of liked more detail on his Miter station build. Like I said I like looking at the repetitive stuff like a tablesaw sawing stuff and routers doing work.

3. Kreg Mcmahon: Always exciting to watch his stuff. Hasn't put anything out in awhile but what I think is happening is that he made a move to Georgia and is getting settled in. Can't wait to see more!

This is my critique. Take it how you want. And share your own opinions about the podcasts you follow. I think these guys would really like to know what you think. And I hope these guys that do make these podcasts realize somethings and take it as all good things so they can continue a good thing or improve. And Like I said I know it takes work and or these people have other priorities, but I feel I would like to give my honest opinion about them.

Thanks

John Dinkeldein

[CessnaPilotBarry]

Personally, I greatly prefer audio-only podcasts.

99% of my podcast listening is audio only. I can listen to it in the shop, mowing the lawn, flying long solo segments in small aircraft, at my desk, in the car, on mass-transit, in cabs, moving through airports like cattle, while my wife is sleeping next to me...

I'll occasionally view video versions in hotel rooms because I hate live commercial TV (and hotel remotes), and in airline seats, because I'm trapped. But for me, most video podcasts (as good as some are!), suffer the same problem I had with Norm, David Marks, T-Mac, etc... on TV. When I'm free at home, I'd rather be WORKING wood than watching someone else do it. I do enjoy short, single task videos that I can search out when I need a technique or idea, but I'll rarely watch a 30 or 60 minute video.

My favorite audio woodworking podcasts are WTO and Fine Woodworking, I never miss an episode of either of them, often saving them for times when I can pay more attention. Marc and his merry men have audio-only down pat, and the FWW folks have quickly gotten very, very good. I'm also a big fan of the Modern Woodworker's Association audio podcast, because it reminds of the type of conversations we might have during lunch breaks at woodworking classes, with folks a lot like myself.

I'm simply more of a reader, listener, and Googler... A video viewer only when I really need to see something...

[Basshunter]

Good topic. I am too new to provide any real feedback. I appreciate your list as I have not found all of these and will definitely be checking them out.

OP - not sure if you have seen this Youtube channel, but check out Andrew Pitt's channel he is Andypitts1000 on youtube. I really like his content. Shows projects from start to finish with enough detail to really understand what he does, but skips over much of the repetitive stuff...This may be a little too detailed for the experienced guy, but for a newbie like me, teaches me a lot. Only problem is, he has one killer shop and tools - some of what he does would be too hard to handle for a small shop.

Looking forward to more comments on what's out on the blogosphere for woodworking...

Basshunter

[Eric.]

OP-

While I'm sure you're right that the podcasters appreciate feedback from viewers and listeners, I guess I found it a bit rude to slam the WTO hosts' respective podcasts right here on the forum they provide for us...especially your insults on Matt. He spends a lot of time, energy and money to provide information that many people find helpful, and asks nothing in return. Whining about the amount and subject matter of the content they offer up to us for free is a bit like complaining that your local news affiliates spend too much time reporting on traffic and weather. If you don't like it, change the channel or buy a newspaper.

Marc makes his living providing content, and considering in the last year he's had a baby, built a mega-shop, dealt with a vicious attack on his website, and kept his promise to grind out great content for his Guild members, it's no surprise that the free site has slowed down a bit. But I'll remind you that despite the enormous obstacles and significant amount of work he's faced, he still provided two projects, several reviews and many technique videos over the last year...for free. How much HBO programming do you get for free? Or to stick with your analogy, how many smartphones have you been given for free? My guess is none. Shannon is in the same boat even if he still has a full time job. They put tons of work into the content they provide, and it's ridiculous to expect them to spend as much time creating free content as paid content. If you want more, get out your wallet. I'd venture to bet you donate far fewer hours and dollars per week to perfect strangers than any of the WTO hosts you shamelessly criticize. As soon as you put in several thousand hours creating a backlog of useful information, spread it around the planet to people who greatly appreciate it, and ask for nothing in return, I'll listen to your critique without rolling my eyes.

[Bob Rozaieski]

3. Only qualm I have? Where the heck are a 2 second video every once in a blue moon Bob? its been 3 Months? I hope this one doesn't go in the discontinued pile.

Nice to hear from you again John . Where you been? I know, I know. Has it really been 3 months? Wow. Guess I'm due huh. Time has just not been my friend this year. I have no plans to discontinue the podcast though. As a matter of fact I've also been working on a website update (just a change in the look) that will probably late this year or early next year. So I'm still around, I just need to find a few spare minutes to work on the podcast. I have a ton of stuff that I want to do for the show, as soon as other things slow down. First I have to get my most recent project done though. It's laying in pieces coated in wet paint all over the shop. So I can't do anything else until the finish on that piece is completed and everything is cleaned up. Hopefully after WIA next week I'll be able to get back into the shop to continue work on some other things and do some more filming.

By the way, I'm always open to suggestions if there's something specific you'd like to see a podcast on. If I may speak for my fellow podcasters, who I'm sure feel the same way, coming up with interesting topics for our shows can be one of the most challenging parts of doing this. While we all have our own ideas, a lot of this stuff has been repeated and rehashed so many times that it's tough to come up with something fresh. So I think I speak for all of us when I ask for your input. We all put a lot of work into these shows, so if everyone wants to see more and better content, by all means, step up and make suggestions and let us know what you want to see.

[Vic]

John,

While I really appreciate you bringing my attention to a few podcasters I hadn't heard of before, your unsolicited critiques were not constructive nor in keeping with the main tenant of this forum's "No Jerks Policy". I would suggest that you simply do not watch these shows, if you don't find value in them. You have to remember that each persons personality will come through in their podcasts and perhaps will not appeal to everyone. I know quite of few of the guys you "critiqued" in both the positive and negative. I consider them my friends. Each and every one of them are really awesome people who, in most cases, are putting out content at a great expense. It takes money to get decent equipment and takes them away from their families. In other words, it is a huge commitment and rather awe inspiring that anyone does this. Even in the case of those that are doing this professionally, the fact that they provide free content should be applauded, not stepped on. Please try to be more courteous in future postings.

[mikem]

John D,

If I may, I would like to critique your critique. Typically a critique (in this case, really synonymous to a review) focuses on one product, service, or in this case podcaster, therefore allowing a much more in depth approach, providing good detail and examples as to how you came to your conclusions. The goal of a critique should ultimately be a tool that the subject of the critique could use to improve upon, which makes the substance of the critique much more important than the ultimate conclusion. Since I would like to think your goal was to open more dialog about these podcasts, this substance is even more important. Unfortunately what I have found in your critique to be just the conclusions. I didn't really find any substance to how you came to your conclusions. This would have gone a long way to creating the dialog that you were looking for. Next, I feel it would have been better if you had broken them out to individual critiques. While they are all considered woodworking podcasts, they all are unique in the styles of podcasts. Some are focuses on power tools, others hand tools, and still some that use both. To compare them all in one critique, as you have done is like comparing apples and oranges. I also look for in a good critique is the tone of it. The spelling and grammar should be relatively free of errors as well as the choice of words should be carefully chosen. Words like sloppy, fat, infomercial can come across as insulting and demeaning while adding no real value to the critique.

What I found in your critiques, is a mass of unsupported conclusions that came across as both insulting and demeaning to those who were the target of your critique. This also has made you come across as being closed minded to your conclusions. Therefore there really is no opportunity to truly have an open discussion with your critiques. To be honest, what you call a critique was simply stating your overall opinion and not really a critique at all. Simply stating unsubstantiated opinions often leads to heated arguments that really offer no value at all. I believe constructive criticism is always welcome, but your post was anything but constructive.

[RenaissanceWW]

John, thanks for the critique. I can only speak to my own show but I think you are right. The Hand Tool School is my 3rd full time job and between the two I am swamped. I can tell you that it kills me not to get a new video out on RWW every week like I used to do. I have tried to compensate for this by creating more written content. I so want to and I even have outlines drafted for plenty of new episodes. All I can say is that when I only have a few hours in the shop I have to think of my paying customers when I decide what to work on. I have an actual obligation to them to deliver top quality content. But honestly, I love making RWW videos because they are often much easier to make.

Sorry that I have let you down on this and I hope you know how much that bugs me as I'm sure many like you feel the same. I must admit I'm shocked that you even watch my show as I have never gotten a comment or email from you in the 4 years I have been podcasting. (maybe a few comments via Twitter) It is honestly good to have this feedback though it doesn't come as a surprise because not putting out videos on RWW keeps me up at night.

[mattvan]

"One Big Fat Infomercial....nothing really learning from this podcast anymore...irrelevant unless you want to know about the latest gimmick or um gimmick. To much talking and not enough visual."

I'm sorry you feel my show isn't worth the effort anymore, after 6 almost 7 years of creating FREE content it can get a little stale at times. But what's amazing to me is the consistant flow of emails and comments from people who are just now getting into woodworking and found my content useful.

Since YOU don't find it useful anymore, rather than "critqueing" it as "nothing really learning from this podcast anymore...irrelevant" why don't you call it what it is to you..."remedial". Your critque easily suggests no one should watch it simply because you don't like it anymore.

I realize there are a lot more advanced woodworkers out there and my content isn't geared to them, fact is, it never was. From day 1 I've never claimed to be a professional or any such thing, I'm an amateur woodworker sharing my experiences...that's it. This includes projects, techniques and tool purchases (were you ever there at some point in your woodworking career?)

As for "To much talking and not enough visual" from day one MBW was an audio only show...video iPods didn't exist until easily 6 months AFTER I started the show (and by the way I was the first to take a chance on this medium, no one else was around at the time and I can't tell you the number of emails I received telling me it woodworking podcasts will never take off...ever!)

To this day...OVER HALF of the audience still listens to the audio only feed. And regardless of that fact, what would you rather have me do, stand there and point at what's happening? Going back to my earlier point about new woodworkers finding my content helpful, it also has to do with my explaining what's happening and why.

I understand you're offering what you think is a helpful critique but it seriously lacks any real merit. A critique is someone who has experience in the area they're talking about. Where's your content? Would it just be clips of wood being cut or shaped without any narration of why or what is happening? Would you NOT share your experiences with existing tools or new tools people have questions about?

I'd offer you a refund, but I don't get paid to produce the content. I make very little income off of advertising on the show (in fact, I usually receive tools or supplies in exchange for that ad money), I work 40 hours a week plus spending time with my family plus everything else I do with other shows and with all do respect to my fellow podcasters, I still manage to get a video out on a regular basis.

I don't claim to have the best show, I don't expect special treatment because I was the first, but I'm not going to sit here and have my show slandered! You obviously have a problem with me...John my email is mattsbasementworkshop@gmail.com feel free to send it directly to me.

[thewoodwhisperer]

Thanks for the feedback John. I think I speak for everyone on your list when I say that all negative feedback stings, whether well-intentioned, mis-informed, kind-hearted, or mean-spirited. Spend a week in my shoes and you'll find out what it's like to get all of those! lol When you actually give a s*&% about the content you produce and you have a very personal relationship with it, it is only natural that you take all comments and critiques to heart. Folks who know us personally and know how we feel about our content are very likely to jump to our defense, as you can already see. This is going to be a rough thread!

Please don't take this as a rebuttal, but I do feel like I need to say a few things in the hopes that we can all understand each other a little better.

By virtue of putting something out there for public consumption, we are automatically signing up for scrutiny and criticism whether we like it or not. Every post we make has a comments section. When we put that post on places like Lumberjocks, Facebook, Twitter, G+, YouTube, and iTunes, we are subject to entirely new sets of critiques and comments. Obviously, based on Mike's nicely laid out descriptions above, most of the "critiques" are not critiques at all, but foregone conclusions with an opinionated wrapper. I suppose it is debatable how helpful these things are to us, but the fact remains that opinions like yours are something we have to digest constantly. Your post comes across as if this is something that is long overdue and just needed to be done. But if you read through any of our comments sections on any of the above-mentioned sites or if you read our iTunes reviews, you'll find that you aren't the only one to arrive at the conclusions you've expressed.

You also brought up Wood Talk as a comparison, since we tend to discuss and critique publications and books. I would like to point out one MAJOR difference that you might not have considered. We only offer critiques on items that are being sold to the public. If you have a tight budget, it's important to know what your fellow woodworker thinks of one publication or another. That helps you decide where your money is best spent. When it comes to free content, I just don't feel it's right to offer a hard critique considering the public loses nothing (other than a few minutes of their time), by exploring that resource on their own. We believe in supporting free content in any way we can because let's face it, if these people don't feel appreciated or valued, there is really nothing stopping them from hanging it up all together. So while I don't feel like we need to tip-toe around free content producers, I do think we should level criticisms with tact and provide useful feedback AND encouragement.

And just a fun little side story. One time, Nicole and I invited a few people over for dinner. One of the guests began to critique her cooking. She simply replied, "Cook it yourself next time *&*hole!"

[PaulMarcel]

There needs to be a 'like' button for Nicole's comment

[CessnaPilotBarry]

To this day...OVER HALF of the audience still listens to the audio only feed. And regardless of that fact, what would you rather have me do, stand there and point at what's happening? Going back to my earlier point about new woodworkers finding my content helpful, it also has to do with my explaining what's happening and why.

As one of the audio guys, I appreciate that!

[mattvan]

So after thinking about it some more I want to extend John an apology for my gut reaction vs a more thoughtful and perhaps humorous response. I love some biting sarcasm and wish I had thrown some into what I wrote LOL.

John you are entitled to your opinion whether I like it or not. Same with everyone else who wants to do the same.

My question back to John and everyone else who feels my show has degraded, when was the last time you visited? Was it over the summer? Was it just recently when I'm starting back up with build projects?

And regarding the amount of talking, what would you suggest would be better? Pantomime lol??? But seriously, are you looking purely for tool scenes and no explanation or sound?

I'd love some genuine feedback!

[Bobby Slack]

Can't we all just get along? How about them Dodgers?

[jmaichel]

John, thanks for the critique. I can only speak to my own show but I think you are right. The Hand Tool School is my 3rd full time job and between the two I am swamped. I can tell you that it kills me not to get a new video out on RWW every week like I used to do. I have tried to compensate for this by creating more written content. I so want to and I even have outlines drafted for plenty of new episodes. All I can say is that when I only have a few hours in the shop I have to think of my paying customers when I decide what to work on. I have an actual obligation to them to deliver top quality content. But honestly, I love making RWW videos because they are often much easier to make.

Sorry that I have let you down on this and I hope you know how much that bugs me as I'm sure many like you feel the same. I must admit I'm shocked that you even watch my show as I have never gotten a comment or email from you in the 4 years I have been podcasting. (maybe a few comments via Twitter) It is honestly good to have this feedback though it doesn't come as a surprise because not putting out videos on RWW keeps me up at night.

Have you thought about offering up some of the Hand Tool School videos on the free site? I am sure your members won't mind if you post a few lessons from season 1. Heck it might ever drum up some more business for the HTS.

To defend John, I think he was very up front an honest in his critique maybe a little harsh but a few of the woodworkers rely on their podcasts as a source of income and other receive compensation in the form of tools and in my opinion this opens you up for criticism but I don't think that WTO forum is the place to critique podcasts.

disclaimer

I don't share the OP's statements or opinions just thought a few of the posters were quick to jump down his throat. I do appreciate all the podcasters and think you are all pioneers!

[thewoodwhisperer]

Well for the record, Wood Talk Forum is a place to discuss and critique anything woodworking related including podcasts. But the person making the post needs to be aware that they are likely to have their critique critiqued in return. Here especially where many of us have taken our online relationships to real life friendships. As a result, there is no shortage of passion in this community. And sometimes, HOW you say something is just as important as WHAT you have to say.

[dinkjs]

First of all I appreciate the critique of my critique

Second of all as I stated "Now who am I to judge? I am absolutely no one important to anyone when it comes to anything. I just watch peoples podcasts, and I feel they need to be critiqued."

Third: My critique really brought out people's personals ideals about themselves and there podcasts in response to their podcasts

Forth: Its interesting as I stated I put no regard to the time people put into this or if its a hobby or a money making opportunity...just a observance of said podcast

Fifth: If your offended I will appologize for you being offended but I won't apologize for what is said

Sixth: These people do a wonderful service and those of you who have stepped up the ladder in terms of popularity. I honestly don't care. Your just a educational podcast and your not immune to critismism either on your source of projecting it or on here. Nor should others be blind to the criticism you receive.

Seventh: Matt Vanderlist, maybe you should re-watch some of your videos regarding the talking portion and the amount you do. I have spent time on each video fast forwarding to get to important stuff and weed out the long documentation about nothing. Sometimes its not about quantity it is about quality. No one is forcing you to put out close to 500 podcasts about woodworking. Maybe you should really spend more on the demonstations and not so much the talking of said item or project. And no one said you couldn't speak during a demonstration.

Eigth: Those podcasts that put onto iTunes I save every single one on my external hard drive for future education for myself and future projects either as a hobby or house item. I even save the old ones that are no longer done. Just because I don't message each and every podcaster with loads of questions or critiques doesn't mean I don't have any. I just leave them for what they are, a educational podcast.

Nineth: Marc Spagnuolo, As I stated your production and presentations are generally flawless and I hope you love your new shop. But I feel in the long run the paid site could hinder future output if people don't know you outside of the paid site. This rolls to Shannon now.

Tenth: Shannon Rogers, As a person who keeps a low head and watches your podcasts old and when new I watch those to I feel on MY OWN OPINION you really do need to set closure maybe and come out and state that RWW is going into long term hiatus and your just going to do Hand Tool School and put a closed lid on the RWW videos.

Eleventh: In regards to WTO as a podcast regarding talking about woodworking and discussing books, projects and whatever I feel it does not have exclusivity to critiquing anything regarding woodworking. Should I have put this in podcast form? Maybe

Twelth: Each and every podcast stated I gave good points and bad points except a few and if you can't handle my personal opinions or anyone for that matters you should figure out a way to shut off all comments so you can stay in your bubble.

Thirteenth: You can tell me to F&$k a tree with my comments and or keep them to myself, but if I did that how is anyone going to improve themselves without negative or positive feedback. Refer back to my second comment.

Fourteenth: If you got a booboo from this cry to someone else because this is who I am...

And finally.....blah!

[mattvan]

John D...Blah right back at you LOL!!!

[Eric.]

[mattvan]

I've extended this offer numerous times over the years, only a few have ever accepted (Shannon). My show is always happy to accept videos and episodes from people who would like to try their hand at the whole podcasting thing.

No long term commitments, just an opportunity to dip your toes in the water. Any takers?

[thewoodwhisperer]

I'm going to just lock this thread. I won't delete it because John is certainly entitled to his opinions. But his uncompromising tone combined with the natural defensiveness of many of the folks on this forum means that there probably won't be much in the way of useful dialog here. I've been a member of this community long enough to know where this is headed. I hope future critiques left on this site can be given and received with an open mind by all parties involved.

Also moving the thread to the Off Topic section.