Efficient dust collection under 90"?

[CessnaPilotBarry]

It makes me a bit worried to alter the design of the dc and I do not like the idea of venting to the outside, given all the potential issues.  The May issue of Wood magazine did a comparison of different dc systems.   Clearvue was not looked at but the Oneida V-System Three Thousand [the numbers on my keyboard are not working] came out on top.  This system is short enough to fit in my basement without any alterations.  Has anyone had any experience with this system?  I wonder why Clearvue was not in the comparison?

 

 

Sometimes, magazines request samples to be loaned for head to head tests, they don't buy them.   In some cases, a manufacturer may choose not to participate, or may not have a demo unit available.  Onieda makes a good machine, so if it fits your space, you'll probably be very happy with it.

 

When I bought my JDS, they were the only sub 90" cyclone on the market.  I've been really happy with it, especially now that it has a built-in RF remote, and automatic filter cleaning system.  

 

Check this out...    My 3100 is one of the earliest made and did not include the built-in remote.  About three or four years into ownership, the mechanical filter beater timer, which plugs in to a socket inside the magnetic switch, failed.  Based on the time in service, I fully expected to simply buy the replacement part and get on with life.  These timers are common, used in many industrial controls, even pools and lawn sprinkler systems, and sell for $10-$20.   JDS didn't have the replacement part available, as they had changed the machine.   They could have sent me to the open market for the part.  Instead, they sent me the entire latest control system, complete with built-in remote and custom conversion instructions for my older machine, NO CHARGE!     

[dwacker]

In my experience, the devil is in the details.

 

This is with a cheesy little plastic bladed 20" box fan, not a powerful air mover.

 

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Cfm is cfm. A cyclone is only a semi powerful air move at the main, so wide open with no duct. Average 400 cfm at the tool. Your dryer is pulling close to 200 cfm. Bath fan 200 + cfm. Range hood 200 cfm. Central vac 200 + cfm. Most of us would not have a problem taking a shower, while the wife cooks and drys laundry while the kid vacuumed. That's a lot more air than any hobby shop is going to move.

Your cheap box fan is moving 2500 cfm five times that of a single machine with 4" duct. The machine is intermittent the fan is not. With your duct wide open you won't pull the the same as a 20 dollar box fan.

[wilburpan]

To the OP: Contact Clear Vue. They have information on installations of their cyclones when you have limited shop ceiling height. I have a similar issue, except that my ceiling height is only about 81", and they gave me a lot of information about my options.

 

In a nutshell, you can (1) build a dust bin that is shorter, (2) reconfigure the filters so that instead of them being stacked on top of each other, they are mounted side by side to a box that attaches to the cyclone outlet, and (3) split the system so that the cyclone is in one spot and the filters are in another.

 

I'm attaching the PDF file that Clear Vue sent to me. It's a really useful document. What has still kept me from installing a CV-1800 is the lack of a 220V circuit.

 

I'd love for Clear Vue to offer a smaller 1.5 HP/120V option for dust collection, even if it doesn't fulfill every last bit of Bill Pentz's recommendations.

Low Ceiling Height Information.pdf

[Byrdie]

So if you want to get an idea of what venting to the outside can do, go in your bathroom and turn on the vent fan.  In most well built homes it will vent to the outside and I really can't imagine most of them are more powerful than the fan on a cyclone.  After you've turned it on, close the door and windows and any other sources for outside air and then put your hand down by the gap under the door.  In my small bathroom, there's quite the breeze that comes in under the door.  Now imagine that's your basement workshop and the path of least resistance for replacement air is the vent pipe for your water heater and furnace.

 

Simple demonstration but I'm sure you'll get the point.

[Vic]

So if you want to get an idea of what venting to the outside can do, go in your bathroom and turn on the vent fan.  In most well built homes it will vent to the outside and I really can't imagine most of them are more powerful than the fan on a cyclone.  After you've turned it on, close the door and windows and any other sources for outside air and then put your hand down by the gap under the door.  In my small bathroom, there's quite the breeze that comes in under the door.  Now imagine that's your basement workshop and the path of least resistance for replacement air is the vent pipe for your water heater and furnace.

 

Simple demonstration but I'm sure you'll get the point.

Yes, again, do not vent the DC to the outdoors.  It's not a good idea in a home.  I'm not a fan in a shop, unless you are in a dry temperate climate. You will create problems.  By the way, my day job is as an energy efficient adviser and I've seen many instances of what imbalances can do, even in my dry, but not temperate climate.

[dwacker]

Nobody has enough information to say how your system should or should not be installed. We simply dont know enough about your home. 

 

What we dont know is anything about your home so making claims that you can or cannot vent to the out side the scope of anyones knowledge regardless of personal experience or expertise.

[Vic]

Nobody has enough information to say how your system should or should not be installed. We simply dont know enough about your home. 

 

What we dont know is anything about your home so making claims that you can or cannot vent to the out side the scope of anyones knowledge regardless of personal experience or expertise.

I'm going on the information that the shop is in the conditioned envelope at this time.  If it is, it isn't a good idea, in general to vent to the outside. It depressurizes the house and that will lead to increased bills in any environment, but a dry and temperate climate.  

[dwacker]

I'm going on the information that the shop is in the conditioned envelope at this time.  If it is, it isn't a good idea, in general to vent to the outside. It depressurizes the house and that will lead to increased bills in any environment, but a dry and temperate climate.  

That being the case? We are talking dust collection. Neg pressure creates a dust barrier between the basement and the rest of the house. There are argument either way but without info it just a guess. Every hospital room uses neg pressure for just this reason. To many guesses without info.

[Vic]

That being the case? We are talking dust collection. Neg pressure creates a dust barrier between the basement and the rest of the house. There are argument either way but without info it just a guess. Every hospital room uses neg pressure for just this reason. To many guesses without info.

That it would. Still not something I would suggest. Indeed, more information is needed to ascertain the best approach to isolating the dust. If its a good DC unit, any ambient dust should be minimal, too. So, may not be an issue anyway.

[wilburpan]

That being the case? We are talking dust collection. Neg pressure creates a dust barrier between the basement and the rest of the house. There are argument either way but without info it just a guess. Every hospital room uses neg pressure for just this reason. To many guesses without info.

 

There's a difference between the positive pressure/negative pressure rooms used for isolation in a hospital setting and the pressure issues caused by venting your DC to the outside of your house. The air flow in a hospital isolation room doesn't come in contact with the outside of the hospital.

 

In the case of a positive pressure room, which keeps germs out of the patient's room, air is pumped through an intake, past a HEPA filter, through the room, and out the door into the hallway, and that airflow keeps any germs from entering through the door. For a negative pressure room, which is designed to keep germs that the patient has from going out to the rest of the hospital, reverse the air flow. In either case, the entire system is enclosed within the hospital, or the conditioned envelope, as Vic puts it.

[energytactics]

It makes me a bit worried to alter the design of the dc and I do not like the idea of venting to the outside, given all the potential issues.  The May issue of Wood magazine did a comparison of different dc systems.   Clearvue was not looked at but the Oneida V-System Three Thousand [the numbers on my keyboard are not working] came out on top.  This system is short enough to fit in my basement without any alterations.  Has anyone had any experience with this system?  I wonder why Clearvue was not in the comparison?

 

I have a V-3000 for about  9 months now.  It does a very good job of separating out most of the dust and the filter is easy to clean. Well put together, easy to install and solved all of my DC concerns.  A bit louder than I expected and in winter does a nice job of adding some heat to the shop.  As a mechanical engineer that long ago designed fuel burning industrial furnaces I support all the concerns about exhausting to the outside from a space conditioned building.