Tony Wilkins Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I have my shooting board all ready and tried using it with what planes I have. With my LV 5 1/4 it tended to catch a lot and chatter. It works well with my only BU plane but unfortunately that a joiner. It's long enough that I have to stand clear on the pull back. I'm open to suggestions of technique to use the BD Jack more efficiently. I was also thinking of tool options. I know there are new and highly effective shooting planes on the market now but I think I'm a little new in woodworking to go for that one trick pony. So I got to thinking of a BU jack plane. I' know that it's main benefit is versatility. However, I've got a smoother, jack, and joiner so would it be of much help in addition to those planes? What is my best route going forward? Dangerous bonus question: my one LN plane experience was less than comfortable and my LV planes have all fit me quite well, however I really like the package and adjustements of the LN? Is there much difference between them? TIA, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 There's not much difference except appearance...they're both high quality tools. A low angle plane is going to be much better for planing end grain...and that's pretty much all it's good for unless you have other blades with higher angle bevels. I bought the LN62 specifically for shooting. It's a versatile plane but I bought it for only one purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I use my LN #62 for almost everything. Very versatile plane. It's the most comfortable plane I've ever used. More to the point... The plane is not necessarily meant for only shooting or end grain. It's just good at it! And the blade comes with the bevel set at the right angle for it. As Eric stated, the plane excels in other areas depending on which bevel angle you use.Marc did a great video of this point. There is also an article by Chris Becksvort in FWW about it.Being a hand tool only guy, you may grow tired switching blades in order to make it work well in other areas.I'd say get one. It's the best purchase I've made in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Mel, do you know the issue with CB's article? I'll go and see if I can find Marc's video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I'll look it up after dinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Found it Mel et al: it is in FWW #217 Guess because I'm an online subscriber I can download the PDF of the article. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Found it Mel et al: it is in FWW #217 Guess because I'm an online subscriber I can download the PDF of the article. Marc's video really helps the article. it's on the live demos page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 If I get the LN #62, should I get the whole package with all the blades and the hotdogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 If I get the LN #62, should I get the whole package with all the blades and the hotdogs? I'd say no. I don't use a hotdog. No need for it. The blades are around $50 each, and you really only need two more. So, basically $350 and your done. Lot less than the $500 or so the set is. That's my logic... I am ordering one more blade soon, for a higher angle for smoothing. I may or may not order a tooth blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 With my other planes, I'm thinking that just the highest angle blade in addition would be fine. I'm still wondering if the hotdog would improve my grip any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 You may like it. I've never used one, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted October 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Leaning towards the LN because it's 1.25 lbs. lighter than the LV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 I use a stanley 5 for shooting, but if the material is small, I often use my BU block plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Tony, both the LN and LV LA jacks make very nice shooters. The biggest benefit, much more than the low angle, is the ergonomics of gripping them on there sides. There is no frog in the way...they are just much easier to hold that way. I own the LV version, and have also used the LN version side by side with it in my friends shop. Both are lovely planes. I think if you get the LN the hotdog is worthwhile. Required? No, but it gives your palm much more to register on, which is helpful when you are shooting something a bit wider or thicker the the usual...you can get more power more comfortably. I've been asking LV to make a hotdog for quite some time. Even though the LV has a bit more of a "built-in" grip than the LN for shooting, I still would love to have a hotdog for it. I should make my own...I know Derek, has a couple writeups on making hotdogs..but I'm lazy so I just keep bothering LV and asking them to make me one Far as blades go, I'd start with two (well actually only have 1 as I just use mine for shooting). But two would be good, one for a low shooting angle, and one for really high angle. Your standard angle BD planes have you covered for most the wood you'll need to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post derekcohen Posted October 25, 2013 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Which would I choose for the shooting board, the LN #62 or the LV LA Jack? Just to be clear, I own the LV, however I have a good deal of exposure to the LN. In addition, for what it is worth, I own the Stanley #62, upon which the LN was derived. Importantly, the LN and the LV are not the same planes. The LV is a larger plane - think of them as a Stanley #5 versus a Stanley #5 1/2. In fact, Lee Valley refer to their plane as a #62 1/2. The LN has a blade that is 2" wide and the LV has one that is 2 1/4" wide. Not much, but it adds to the construction and mass. The LV weighs 5 lb 12 oz. The LN weighs 4 lbs 9 oz. That is quite a difference and the higher mass of the LV is much preferred with a shooter, all other factors being equal. The LV also has a wider/higher side than the LN. This means that it is more stable when run on its side. The LN will run well enough, especially if one adds an outer fence to the shooting board runway, nevertheless the LV is more stable. The LN has a hotdog handle available where the LV does not. You can make one for either from my method on my website. I used to think that the hotdog was important, until I discovered that the LV LA Jack did not need one for a secure grip. This is outlined in this article ... http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ShootingPlanesCompared.html The correct way (in my opinion) of holding the LAJ (and shooting planes generally), is to exert downforce at a central point while simultaneously exerting low lateral sideforce. One must not attempt to simply push the plane against the sidewall to the shooting board. This will unbalance the plane and cause it to cant over. Downforce is applied by the thumb directly into the dimpled fingerhole. Sideforce is applied by the four fingertips pushing from under the levercap. This handhold is quite comfortable and makes the LAJ a practical user without a hotdog. Indeed, there is the potential for someone to grasp a hotdog (whether on the LV or LN LAJ planes) and attempt to push it against the fence from high (and not use their fingers to maintain sideways pressure from low). Contributing to “tippiness” is the amount of “run up” to the board that is used. Many – both experienced and novices alike – would draw the plane back to the start of the runway, and then push it forward fast in an attempt to create momentum, as if this was necessary to power through the end grain. Shooting in this manner would lead to user losing control of the plane. What is necessary for control is minimum run up. Place the plane with the blade nearly touching the near edge of the board, and then simply push the plane forward, with even pressure and firmly. Since the shaving removed is very fine, a plane with a sharp blade will cut without much effort. Once this was understood, the extra mass of the LAJ was an advantage over the more stable #9. Regards from Perth Derek 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Very logical and reasoned advice Derek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Derek, I read that post to say; as a shooter the LV is "better", but as a utility plane, the LN is "better". The increased weight is good or shooting, but who wants to haul around more weight than need be while working a board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Having used them side by side, I would say that the LN is a little nicer to use as a utility plane, for trimming and general purpose smoothing because its smaller, lighter, and personally I find the tote more comfortable. I would say the LV is a nicer shooter, and also small jointer/general purpose plane for straightening and some amount of flattening because its heavier, wider, longer, and and has a set back mouth. They really are very different feeling planes, however, at the end of the day the difference in what each excels at more then the other are pretty minimal. Both do well at the same tasks, but each is a little better at different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 They really are very different feeling planes, however, at the end of the day the difference in what each excels at more then the other are pretty minimal. Both do well at the same tasks, but each is a little better at different things. That is what I meant to say Bottom line, I'm a Lie-Nielsen guy. I'll keep buying planes from him/them. I started with that, and it's not going to change unless something drastic occurs. Like a plane that only LV offers that I must have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 That is what I meant to say Bottom line, I'm a Lie-Nielsen guy. I'll keep buying planes from him/them. I started with that, and it's not going to change unless something drastic occurs. Like a plane that only LV offers that I must have. Ah .. Mel, then your preference is not based on reason but emotion! LN make fabulous tools. I probably have a lot more of them than most. About 10 planes in all. They are modelled on the classics, with upgraded materials and superb attention to details. Quality-wise, the LN and the LV are on a par. No difference at all. However, when it comes to design, LV are streets ahead. The LA Jack from LV is more technically advanced than the LN #62. The LV has set screws for the blade - which are alone worth the entry fee. The blade adjuster is a Norris (the LN uses a rudimentary, non-lateral-adjustable mechanism). The slide for the adjustable mouth is just sooooo much easier to use on the LV. And the LV, and only the LV, has a depth stop for the mouth. Not last, and not least, the LV have PM-V11 steel for the blades. It is a much more advanced and better steel than the A2 of LN. All-in-all, the LV is the superior plane. Hey, don't let all that logic get in the way of emotion - if the LN is what you desire, then get it. As I said before, it is a fine plane. You will be very happy using it. Just do not use it alongside the LV. Regards from Perth Derek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Ah .. Mel, then your preference is not based on reason but emotion! All-in-all, the LV is the superior plane. Hey, don't let all that logic get in the way of emotion - if the LN is what you desire, then get it. As I said before, it is a fine plane. You will be very happy using it. Just do not use it alongside the LV. Regards from Perth Derek All in all I would consider myself to be rather logical. I really don't know what it is about the LV planes. Yes, they are nice. If I started with them instead of the LN who knows what I'd be using right now. I am more of a symmetry kind a guy. I like things to match. I am not usually overly loyal for the sake of loyalty, just my OCD. My pedalboard for guitar and bass has pedals from the same maker. Yep, they're nice, and I'm sure other makers have pedals that do nice things too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted October 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 I just ordered the LN. The weight is very important to me because of compromised strength. I ordered it before I came and saw there were more responses to this thread though. The PM-V11 almost swayed me to go with the LV but the weight ended up being the deciding factor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted October 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 One concern that just struck me. The tote on the LN #5 I returned really dug into the webbing between my thumb and fingers. Now the grip is different on a BU vs BD (3 v 4 fingered). Is it likely that the tote on the LN #62 will be the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 I tend to prefer LN bench and BU planes, but I generally like the Veritas joinery planes better than the LN joinery planes. The differences between them are pretty insignificant and not really worth debating IMO. They're both quality companies and quality tools, and any trouble using them is an indication of a skill deficit rather than a flawed tool. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted October 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 I think I'm a flawed tool with a skill deficit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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