G S Haydon Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71370&cat=51&ap=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Strange angles with 14 rake on the rip, and 15 fleam (alternating bevels??) on the crosscut. They look like they are designed for a manned mission to colonize Mars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted December 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 LV tools do look very from the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Ron Bontz came in to the lumberyard yesterday and I sold him some goodies. I'm thinking about buying a tenon saw from him...if I don't mind waiting an eternity. Super nice guy. Check his stuff out... http://www.bontzsawworks.net/home/18-tenon-saw/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I've tried the smaller LV saws, against my Independence / LN back saws (fresh from LN sharpening), and the funky LV saws are surprisingly good, especially once I remembered the price. I don't have any larger back saws, and the new ones immediately caught my eye. I don't really care what my tools look like, only cost vs. performance, so a non-traditional look doesn't bother me. I'm hoping to give the new LV saws a test cut in January, or sooner, if my local woodworking school happens to get a sample. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I have 3 LV saws and I love them. I realize I am a recovering Normite, but I have to say they "fit" me well if that makes any sense. I would certainly give this saw a day in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CStanford Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Aesthetically lacking, as if the design brief revolved around the material to be used for the spine, the plastic stuff. A material in search of a design instead of the other way around? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklyngohardwood Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 This seems a good as time as any to ask a question I've been pondering about saws: Putting price and aesthetics aside, what is really the difference between a $80 LV saw, a $140 LN, and say a $240+ Gramercy, Bad Axe, etc saw? Comfort seems like factor, especially with someone like Bad Axe who will customize the fit, but how big is the difference in actual sawing performance? Everyone seems to say that the LV saws cut great "considering the price" but if you ignore the price how big is the difference? I'm in the market for saws and am willing to pony up for a premium tool if it really gets me greatly better performance, but it's not clear to me if there's really that big a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Performance is totally dependent on the sharpening. One steel may stay sharp longer, and be able to be sharpened a bit sharper, but I doubt any of these will outperform a hundred year old, 35 buck one off ebay that is well sharpened, or even each other with the same sharpening. Now one different sharpening geometry will work better than another one in a particular wood, but that's not dependent on the brand of the saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Graham, They are kinda shaped like these: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=57151&cat=1,42884,57152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted December 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Boom! That old school vibe has me smiling, thanks Chet. I think it's linked back to the seaton tool chest stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklyngohardwood Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Performance is totally dependent on the sharpening. One steel may stay sharp longer, and be able to be sharpened a bit sharper, but I doubt any of these will outperform a hundred year old, 35 buck one off ebay that is well sharpened, or even each other with the same sharpening. Now one different sharpening geometry will work better than another one in a particular wood, but that's not dependent on the brand of the saw. Thanks Tom, that makes sense! That makes me want to get better at sharpening and buy more vintage saws (which are the ones I find most aesthetically pleasing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiback46 Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I have the small LV Saws, and old Disston back saws, and a Bad Axe Saw. The Bad Axe saw definitely came the sharpest. In fact after using it for a couple days I made the decision to sharpen my LV Dovetail saw, which I have had for a couple years. That made a huge difference. The points actually stuck to my hand, much like the Bad Axe. A week later I had the opportunity to borrow a friends brand new LV Dovetail saw, and the very quick sharpening I had given mine made it sharper than his as purchased. I have also tried L-N at their hand tool events, and those always feel dull, but also get (ab)used a lot at a show every week. They are all a pleasure to use, I think it is worth it to buy one or get one professionally sharpened at some point, because until I got the Bad Axe I was very disillusioned as to what a sharp saw was. The handles feel different, but again none feel bad, just different (and handles are shapable/replacable). I want to make a new handle for my LV crosscut so it looks different at a glance from the dovetail, and will likely make it just a tiny bit larger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CStanford Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 The L-N show saws are probably intentionally left a little dull since a slightly dull saw is easier to start. The rap on the L-N dovetail saw is that it has always been a bit of a balky starter requiring a very light touch. Using them just a bit off sharp cures that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I've used both those saws at tom fidgens workshop - lee valley sent them to him before they were released to the public. They are both awesome, and I have been waiting for them to be available. I'm going to get the set, as it is reasonably priced compared to other high end hand saws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted December 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 That must of been a fun day Franklin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 How was the 14 degree rake on the rip saw? It's hard for me to believe that it wouldn't be awfully slow, and feel weird compared to a normally raked one. It seems like it's all about easy to start with new saws these days-maybe the same for the 15 fleam on the crosscut saw. I don't recall ever seeing less than 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arminius Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 The 14 degree rake actually sort of appeals to me for use on sugar maple (and birch to a lesser extent). I would be curious to try a cut versus one with 8 degrees - I believe even Bad Axe goes as high as 12 degrees for a saw dedicated to tough hardwoods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 How was the 14 degree rake on the rip saw? It's hard for me to believe that it wouldn't be awfully slow, and feel weird compared to a normally raked one. It seems like it's all about easy to start with new saws these days-maybe the same for the 15 fleam on the crosscut saw. I don't recall ever seeing less than 20. Tom went over a bunch of tooth geometry with me for academic purposes. I tried 15 or so saws that day, including a variety of bad axe, nielson, and veritas. He told me just to go with what felt right. I cut a bunch of tenons by hand, under toms watchful eye, and I learned a lot. Bang for the buck, you can't beat the veritas saws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 That must of been a fun day Franklin. Certainly was! So much so I went back for a second three hour session a few months later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 I'm almost embarrassed to admit this, but the LV saws (and planes) always seem to fit my hands better than the LN. The LN is nearly always prettier, but as I've gotten more and more into hand tools, I find (dare I say it) I like the LV better most of the time. Both companies are absolutely incredible to work with in terms of service and helpfulness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted December 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Chet, this often makes me think that a "Tool Hire" service might be cool. For a yearly subscription you get to choose high end tools to trial for a Month or so. Different tariff for different level of usage, kinda like the love film DVD concept. Therefore trying before you buy in a realistic way. No doubt this probably exists somewhere already. That way your comfort issue is easily found out before purchase. Or, is BD or BU better for you, all kinds of stuff. No doubt people smarter than me have thought of this and it's a non starter on cost, but I do like the concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Chet, this often makes me think that a "Tool Hire" service might be cool. For a yearly subscription you get to choose high end tools to trial for a Month or so. Different tariff for different level of usage, kinda like the love film DVD concept. Therefore trying before you buy in a realistic way. No doubt this probably exists somewhere already. That way your comfort issue is easily found out before purchase. Or, is BD or BU better for you, all kinds of stuff. No doubt people smarter than me have thought of this and it's a non starter on cost, but I do like the concept. There is a guy on SMC ( a guitar maker) who sent several of his tools around to other members, that he didn't use much or had duplicates of around for while. He kept a list of interested people, and when it was your turn all you had to do was pay to ship it off to the next person. It was a very cool and generous thing to do. Couple other people did it after he did too. That was my first experience using an LV BU plane and I also got to play with the little LV detail palm planes that way. Might be cool to see if you can set something like that up on one of the UK forums since (I'm guessing) you guys don't have as much of an ability to attend LN and LV shows there and such as readily as some of us in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted December 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Yeah, that's the issue really Chris. There are shows but there does seem more on offer on your side of the pond. I'm passing on a #5 to a guy from a UK forum gratis. It's gathering dust and will hopefully be of use. Sadly I can't pimp out my personal tools just yet, I'm currently happily wed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Graham, Firstly ... There are people smarter than you? ... I very much doubt that. Your suggestion is a good one. What I do have access to is a local Woodworker's guild, which has tons of people with tons of tolls. Most of the members are totally supportive of letting you try one of their tools. (Membership, a yearly subscription, also gives you 10% at some local woodworking stores, so there's an added bonus.) That's a pretty similar concept to what you describe. One of these days I will be ready to buy a new bandsaw. After I narrow down the field I will contact my guild to find members who have those models so that I can go to their shops and give those different saws a "test drive". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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